change of switch socket / plug socket

Joined
10 Oct 2014
Messages
201
Reaction score
3
Location
Sussex
Country
United Kingdom
Hi all,


DIY newbie here and looking to update the flat with fresh coat of paint and potentially upgrade all the plug / interrupter (light switch – in case my wording is wrong) with something more fancy.


Is that something that a novice can do? Or do I need an electrician?

Do i need to be aware of what I am buying? in regards of specs? to my limited understanding, I believe i am just changing the aesthetic- is that correct?


https://www.toolstation.com/antique-brass-switch/p74793#reviewTab

https://www.toolstation.com/antique-brass-13a-dp-socket/p97903


I saw these on tools station? But any specific suppliers recommendations or all about personal taste ?


Thanks,
Jeremy
 

Attachments

  • 20200613_204749_resized.jpg
    20200613_204749_resized.jpg
    497 KB · Views: 312
  • 20200613_204808_resized.jpg
    20200613_204808_resized.jpg
    285.3 KB · Views: 327
  • 20200613_204837_resized.jpg
    20200613_204837_resized.jpg
    389.3 KB · Views: 320
Sponsored Links
Sockets should be straight forward. Switches come in different types, one way, two way, intermediate. Two way are used when a light can be operated from 2 places. Intermediates are required if a light can be operated from 3 or more places. Metal switches need to be earthed. Depending on the age of your wiring this may not be easy or possible without a rewire.

Before disconnecting anything take a photo of the connections. Different switches have the terminals in different positions.

Finally as your switches and sockets are in good nick keep them so when the antique brass fad wears off or the brass gets scratched you can put them back.

Don't forget to switch off your power before doing anything.
 
Hi Winston1,

i believe all are single way - but you have raise important thoughts about earth.

Metal switches need to be earthed. Depending on the age of your wiring this may not be easy or possible without a rewire.


thanks for the feedback - Ok so me think that is going to be a job for an electrician then maybe.

What I will do - is turn off the power and undo and take picture to check if there is earth or not and gather feedback.

Thanks
 
If your wiring is very old, there may be no earth. If there is an earth, it may not be working properly. The current plastic switches are `double insulated` and won't be live if you have a fault. If you fit brass and there is a fault, the faceplates may be live and this presents a danger.
 
Sponsored Links
1966 was the date the rules changed on earths, so post that date all lighting should have an earth available even if not used.

The simple switch often has a moulding which is common, so quick glance two way, intermediate and double pole can look the same, an intermediate can be used as two way, and a two way as simple on/off but not the other way around, double pole often used for outside lights, and there are some with a terminal to park the neutral in but does not do anything.

When we move to electronic the system changes, some need neutral some do not, and two way switching uses an extra low voltage S (signal) terminal and switches are either master or slave.

Sockets do swap position of terminals so you need to read the line or neutral marking, some double up on terminals some expect you to put all the line wires for example in one terminal.
shopping
if you use a tester then you should be reasonably safe.
 
1966 was the date the rules changed on earths, so post that date all lighting should have an earth available even if not used.

The simple switch often has a moulding which is common, so quick glance two way, intermediate and double pole can look the same, an intermediate can be used as two way, and a two way as simple on/off but not the other way around, double pole often used for outside lights, and there are some with a terminal to park the neutral in but does not do anything.

When we move to electronic the system changes, some need neutral some do not, and two way switching uses an extra low voltage S (signal) terminal and switches are either master or slave.

Sockets do swap position of terminals so you need to read the line or neutral marking, some double up on terminals some expect you to put all the line wires for example in one terminal.
shopping
if you use a tester then you should be reasonably safe.

I was pointing that an earth must be found and tested before fitting a metal socket or switch. The stuff about different types of switch applies to plastic as well as metal. Good luck testing a light switch with a plug tester.
 
It is not should. That Circuit must have one or more protective measures. See 410.3.3. If no cpc is present, fitting metal switch would mean the circuit does not comply with the regs. If the switch became energised, it would be potentially dangerous.
 
I remember as a young lad working on a farm, I got a belt off the light switch when I came to use it, at which the farmer said that's why I wear a cap and flicked the switch with his cap, it never gave him a shock only visitors.

Safety is not simply following regulations, it is also down to taking steps not to put your self in harms way, but to follow the regulations you need to test and inspect every alteration you make and complete the minor works certificate or installation certificate, it is clear DIY people in the main don't do that, so being blunt DIY people don't care about regulations and often don't really worry about personal safety, if they did they would simply never fit metal switches or sockets.

I agree there is little the DIY man can safely do with a switch change other than touch with neon screwdriver to see if live, however also talking about changing a socket, and line and neutral terminals are not always in the same place, may seem odd but the electrician is more likely to make an error, I remember fitting a number of boxes of sockets, most had line to right but one had line to left, I missed it, so fitted them with line and neutral swapped, however since I always tested I realised my error and corrected, but it is easy to make an error, and it is so easy to plug in a tester and see error before there is any problems as a result.

Line and neutral swap means line not fused, and item can be live when switched off, but item still works, so unless tested it can go undetected for years, my old house doing a test I found ring final broken, easy enough to miss causing over loading, but everything works, so again unless tested can go undetected for years.

However the question is can we really ask or expect the DIY man to test. Personally I would not like to tell a DIY man to open a consumer unit, and not sure I could explain how to test wires at the socket in an unambiguous way to ensure all was OK, I tend to use the loop impedance tester, if ring lost with line or neutral the impedance will rise, so before, during, and after testing will show all wires connected, but how many DIY people have a loop impedance tester?

However to simply say get an electrician to do it, kind of removed the whole point of a DIY electrical forum.

We all break the rules, I may run across the road rather than wait for larger break in traffic, although not so often at my age, but although you may run across the road, you would not train your children to run across the road.

So in a modern house with RCD protection on every circuit for the DIY guy to switch switches and sockets is not really much of a problem, a neon screwdriver and plug in tested is likely enough to protect them, but in an old house with re-wireable fuses and no RCD the danger is much increased, having lived in a house with full RCD protection for last 25 years I tend to forget some house don't have that protection, there are not many pre-1966 installations left with no earth on lights, but there are some.

And with DIY there are many lighting systems where 12 volt has been converted to 230 volt and has resulted in no earth to light fittings, when I moved in here there was a large notice on the consumer unit test RCD regular, and I thought good at least sockets are RCD protected, however I was wrong about a dozen were protected, but most of the house was still using re-wireable fuses, of course now all RCD protected, but had some one taken a photo of that old consumer unit and posted it on this forum asking if RCD protected sockets I would have said yes. Until switching off consumer unit did not cause power to fail I had no idea there was a fuse box hidden in the ceiling.

So how far can we go spouting regulations? To my mind you need to forget regulations and try and give some advice as to safe working practice, the neon screwdriver has become a dirty word, however working in the tunnel in Hong Kong it was our life belt, or maybe anti-belt device, tested all metal before touching, yes before working we should prove dead, and we should use a clamp on ammeter to test for borrowed neutrals before disconnecting a wire, but how many DIY people have a clamp on ammeter, they however much we frown on it, rely on the neon screwdriver to keep them relatively safe. Even if it does not comply with regulations.
 
I posted a reference to 1 regulation, directly linked to the advice I gave to ensure there is a functioning earth before fitting metal sockets or switches. Not exactly spouting regulations. I would hope Jeremy found this useful advice. As for your advice to forget about the regs I have no answer.
 
Thanks all for the additional info - have not had time yet to unscrew one switch as work been so busy. but after all that additional reading me think that might be more a job for an electrician.

I must admit as well that i have an old consumer unit - it was there when I moved into the flat over 5 years ago and never really too the time to change it - with the argument of do no change something that is not broken.

what is everybody thoughts on the consumer unit?
 

Attachments

  • 20200618_063141.jpg
    20200618_063141.jpg
    266.2 KB · Views: 287
The converted fuse boxes you have offer no RCD protection, and the regulations require any new socket should be RCD protected, so as it stands you can't add anything without a lot of work, there is no requirement to up grade to a consumer unit, however I have in my own house, the main consideration when adding RCD protection is nuisance tripping, no one is worried if it trips due to a fault, that is what it's there for, but if the circuit is too large it can trip when there is no good reason, and also when they do trip it is how much power you loose.

So there are three stages of consumer unit (CU) each stage reduces the chance of nuisance tripping, first is simply two RCD's second is two RCD's plus some selected RBCO's (That's a RCD and MCB combined) and last is all RCBO's. What you need is to consider how much to spend v chance of nuisance trips. Personally I went for all RCBO's cost is also down to make, and RCBO type, I have cheap RCBO's type AC in hind sight maybe that was an error, but your electrician will advice what type is required, however suggest you look at the nuisance factor before hand and decide on how much to spend.
 
Basically if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. But as Eric said you shouldn’t add any more sockets as it is even though doing so won’t make it any less safe.
 
@winston1 has a good point, however that also covers changing sockets which was the start of this thread. I fitted RCD's all though years ago because my 14 year old son had become a radio ham, and be it computers or radios he was using in one way or another low voltage (230 volt) not all the bits were extra low voltage (below 50 volt AC) however with this house I realised at some point or another I would want to add a socket or light, and although you can use RCD sockets and RCD FCU (fused connection unit) and alitube cable that is a lot of messing around, so may as well replace the distribution unit (technically the fuse box you have was made before type testing started so not a consumer unit, although the replacement would be a consumer unit).

The other point is the RCD has now been around so 30 years, and we have got use to them, that includes manufacturers, and many appliances state on them they should be RCD protected, so unless RCD's are fitted a job like fitting a new boiler becomes harder, plus there have been other changes like gas and water pipes in the road being changed to plastic, although we should not use the pipes for an earth they did enhance the earth.

So my dads house built 1954 I know did have a reasonable earth as when a lad I managed to short line to earth and blow a fuse, but in 2004 when fitting a wet room we found there was no earth to the house, we are suppose to test every 10 years, but we all know only tested when new work done, he also had no earth connected to any lights, it was not required before 1966.

So yes can see if not broke don't fix it to some extent, but old Queensferry bridge (North Wales) when I went into the control room still had knife switches with all live parts exposed, and I broke it, we were fitting wear strips and if we could lift bridge a couple of inches it would make it easier, however one concrete had been added to road way and two a whole housing estate had been added to bridge supply, so ruptured the fuses and caused a power cut to housing estate and did not lift bridge, likely 40 years ago, but clearly at that point there was still power to knife switches.

So I would say personally any house wired before 1966 likely needs a rewire even if all is still working, one because of lack of earth to lights, and two use of rubber insulated cables. So there really does need to be a limit to if not broke don't fix it.
 
So I would say personally any house wired before 1966 likely needs a rewire even if all is still working, one because of lack of earth to lights, and two use of rubber insulated cables. So there really does need to be a limit to if not broke don't fix it.

Rubber was phased out long before 1966. My late parents house was built in 1952 and had PVC cables from the outset. I believe it was one of the first. Other houses on the estate built a year or two earlier had rubber so I was told.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top