Changing a single socket to 2 FCU's

[andym4nx]

Hi, I've currently got a dishwasher and washing machine plugged into a 4-bar extension running into a single socket . As the cb trips when I try and use them both at the same time I want to change the socket to 2x FCU's. The socket is on a ring (i think) and i'm happy to do away with the socket in replace of the first FCU, then spur off this for the second FCU.

Sound okay? I'm unsure about the consumtion of the appliances and dont want to overload the circuit.

Thanks

 

[ricicle]

If the circuit breaker is tripping through overload then changing the socket to two FCUs will not cure that. What size is the circuit breaker?

 

[ericmark]

The socket is on a ring (i think)

That needs checking as it seems odd that a cb trips rather than fuse blows if on a ring.

My house originally had an immersion heater which had a remote switch in the kitchen so there are three odd sockets on a B16 MCB not the B32 used for ring. I am sure this is mirrored with many houses over the years where something is removed and sockets fitted instead.

You need to check first exactly what size the CB is. As you may be doing a lot of work to no avail.

 

[andym4nx]

Thanks guys,
Besides removing the facia to see two 2.5mm T+E going to the socket, I haven't done too much investigation. It could be a radial I suppose but knowing how the house has been wired maybe even a spur with another socket spurred from it.
We've always just been sure not to use both appliances at the same time so been a while since anything popped.
I'll get some more info re the CB over the weekend and get back to you

 

[stillp]

What size is the circuit breaker?

Please answer Ricicle's question. It seems strange that you're tripping a circuit-breaker when the extension lead should have two 13A fuses.

 

[winston1]

Hi, I've currently got a dishwasher and washing machine plugged into a 4-bar extension running into a single socket :

4 way extn are rated at a max of 13A so running two large appliances off it is wrong.

Why 2 FCUs. A simple spur off the existing socket would do what you need with one machine plugged into the existing socket and one into the spur.

But still don't use them both at the same time as the same CB will still blow.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

As most of the post above have pointed out, the circuit should not trip on overload if it is a standard RFC (ring final circuit), find two sets of 2.5mm cables at the socket will not inform you of the circuit type, it could be a radial circuit. If you are aware that the circuit is tripping, I guess you have attempted to reset the trip switch, if so, you should know the rating of this, as you have come in contact with it.

Using two heavy load appliance on a 13A socket or 13A extension lead, is a no no! I am surprised that you have not had overheating problems with the extension!

You need to investigate further to confirm this circuit is suitable to adapt for the loading of these appliances.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the cb trips when I try and use them both at the same time

But things are OK if they are used one at a time?

What happens if you use a different socket?

Can you use current socket for one and the extension lead (or another one) to connect the second appliance to another socket? If so, what happens?

How many socket circuits do you have? Can you use an extension lead to get one or both appliances onto a different circuit? What happens?

What size is the circuit breaker?

And what type of breaker is it?

Just a circuit breaker, or does it say RCBO on it, or have a Test button?

Everyone has been assuming that it's an MCB tripping through overload, but there is another possibility....

A photo would be useful if you don't know what any of the wording or numbers on it mean. If you want to use the site's own photo library provision you'll find the instructions here: //www.diynot.com/network/DIYnot/albums/67/180

You will need to do all 11 steps.

Or in a fraction of the time it takes to go through that convoluted process you could use an image hosting site such as http://www.postimage.org

 

[AndyPRK]

If the circuit breaker is tripping through overload then changing the socket to two FCUs will not cure that. What size is the circuit breaker?

It could be a cb in the extension lead.

 

[andym4nx]

Sorry for the late response but been on nights. Thanks for all the input, I'll try and answer all your questions.
Out of habit we've never used both appliances at once as 'something' used to trip. Its been years since it last happened and I couldn't remember if it was the RCD(63A/30mA trip), fuse in the extension, fuse in the appliance plug or fuse (15A) blowing in the ancient consumer unit.
So I spent ages yesterday playing around and watching the appliances run but couldn't for the life of me get anything to trip The only thing noticeable was the extension lead plug getting hot.
The only difference between now and 5 years ago is a new washing machine. Does it have a different power consumption? did the old machine have an electrical fault? No idea! So I'm no wiser as to what the old problem was but I don't remember the hassle of finding and replacing fuses or fuse wire etc which makes me think it was the RCD that used to trip, so probably the old machine was faulty. If my girlfriend could sort it I'm sure it'll have been the RCD switch!
When I run 1 machine at a time, things are absolutely fine- no overheating of plugs or blown fuses etc. Running them both at the same time on different sockets or different circuits, again is fine.

As most of you have said, my current set up is probably dangerous if I use both apps at once so would still like to change the sockets.

Changing to 2 sockets is a good suggestion but I'm limited by wall space so the socket would have to go behind the appliance.
The reason i wanted to change them to FCUs was to save having to slide them out if there's a problem and knackering the flooring plus its easy to turn them off when we go away. The flex on the appliance is too short to put the socket where its easily mountable and I want to stay away from joints or extensions.

So given that my trip problem seems to have gone away, will my original idea of 2 FCUs be okay?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

So given that my trip problem seems to have gone away, will my original idea of 2 FCUs be okay?

It would, but that is the lazy option. I would at least extend the RFC, rather than spur from it.

Forgive me for asking, I may be missing something? But two sockets would take up the same room as two FCUs and why would isolation be easier than unplugging appliances, you still need access to them?

 

[andym4nx]

No problem prenticeboy - the appliances are beneath a worktop under a window so the closest I can get sockets would still require me to extend at least one of the appliances flex and I'd rather not have to drill holes in the worktop and have the cable poke through. My intention was to replace the current socket where my extension lead goes with the fused switches then chase in a cable for the outlet plates behind the appliances.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Okay so you are fitting two FCUs, then to them outlet plates to the location of the appliances?

I still recommend extending ring, rather than spur from one FCU to the other.

 

[andym4nx]

Yes that's my intention.
So rather than spur for the fcu's is it acceptable for the fcu's to form part of the ring?
As in:
//www.diynot.com/pages/el/el015.php
But using an fcu in place of the additional socket?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not just acceptable - better.