Chimney damper

[LordFrederickIII]

I'm looking to find a UK based company that installs chimney dampers like the ones this company in Ireland does: http://www.fire-genie.com/

Unfortunately they don't have a fitter in Yorkshire. Anyone know if there is a UK based company doing these?

 

[gasbanni]

Potentially lethal !

Watched the video, reduces the cross sectional area of the flue bad idea.

Anything that can block of the flue like that is a definite No No at least with the inflatable balloons they will melt fall in the fire and not constitute a danger if a fire is lit with it in position.

 

[danechip]

How would Santa get down there? Think of the poor children.

Also, what about the carbon monoxide ?

You would have to put the fire out totally first to which the room would be cold anyway.

 

[LordFrederickIII]

These are quite common in the states. I assume as long as you use these in the correct manner it should be ok.

The room is fitted with Carbon Monoxide testers

 

[richie70]

LordFrederickIII I am not too sure if you went with the fire genie. The wife was recommended this chimney damper from friends across the water. I emailed the company and got the following (the bold emphasis is mine):

Thank you for contacting us at Fire Genie.

We provide a nationwide supply and fit service for the Fire Genie chimney damper, as this allows us to give an underwritten warranty of 2 years for our product (extendable to 5 years). Typically supply and installation costs for a standard 16"-18" fireback is £250; we estimate that within 16-20 months of use the Fire Genie will have paid back this investment in saved heat from your home; after this time the Fire Genie is effectively free and should give you between £170-£220 saving in your solid fuel usage per year.

Larger fireplaces, anything from 600cm to 1.5m are called ‘specials’ the price of these range from £450 to £650. These fire genies are custom made to suit any size of opening, not only are the savings on your heating bill a lot greater than the standards, but you will be able heat your room to the required temperature.

In some situations the job may be more expensive, in this case our professional installers are able to let you know if there are any additional costs prior to work starting--work will only commence should you wish to go ahead with a purchase on the agreed price. Examples of additional costs would be: side expansion fans to support back boiler installations (supply and fit of these is £60), build-up work for larger openings (typically £30 approx.), reshaping work for smaller/irregular openings, e.g., 14", 15", 19" etc. openings (typically £35-£45).

If you can take some digital pictures of their fireplace, perhaps using a mobile phone and e-mail that to us and we can confirm fairly quickly the price for your fireplace. We would require three digital photographs: one looking dead-on at your fireplace, the second taken from about 1 foot away from your fireplace and directed upwards towards the top of your fireback, and the third aimed straight up your chimney flue. Please also provide a measurement of the front of your fireplace opening. Once we receive this information we can give you a price for all works involved.

Kind regards,
Francis
Technical Director


The following is the email the wife's relative forwarded to us from the company (again the bold emphasis is mine):

We provide a full supply and fit installation nationwide, as this allows us to give an underwritten warranty of 2 years for our product (extendable to 5 years). Typically installation costs for a standard 16"-18" fireback is £135; we estimate that within 10-12 months of use the Fire Genie will have paid back this investment in saved heat from your home alone and a further saving of 35% to 45% on your sold fuel for your fire, saving you in total between £130 and £180 a year.

Our professional installers are able to let you know if there are any additional costs prior to any work starting--work will only commence should you wish to go ahead with a purchase on the agreed price. Examples of additional costs would be: side expansion fans to support back boiler installations, build-up work for larger openings, reshaping work for smaller/irregular openings (e.g., 14", 15", 19" etc. openings).
We are now that confident that if you do not notice or feel that you’re not saving heat that we will take the product out and give you your money back.

Should you wish to go ahead and book a fitting by one of our installers, or wish to install the genie yourself, or require further information, please respond in like to this e-mail.

Regards,



Francis

What worries me is the significant difference in price (£250 versus £135) and similar variations in savings and payback (going from 10-12 months payback with annual savings of £130 - £180 to 16-20 months payback with annual savings of £170-£220). Doesn't that sound dodgy?? The last straw for me was doing some google work led me to the following Irish forum site: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056706230 the last comment is worrying and seems to reflect danechip's and gasbanni's thoughts.

 

[JTW1963]

Richie70, a bit of a late posting on this slightly old topic. Have been doing the annual "getting ready for winter" preps (chimney sweeping, boiler servicing, etc). Stumbled upon this thread as I was looking for a damper/chimney closure system similar to those used on the continent, and I thought I found the answer in the form of the Fire Genie. However, interesting to note that there seems to have been a change in pricing policy since your posting above as I had the following response sent to me (note the almost 60% increase in price for their standard offering!!! Also note the difference in pay back period and the annual fuel savings):

We provide a nationwide supply and fit service for the Fire Genie chimney damper, as this allows us to give an underwritten warranty of 2 years for our product (extendable to 5 years). Typically supply and installation costs for a standard 16"-18" fireback is £395; we estimate that within 12-16 months of use the Fire Genie will have paid back this investment in saved heat from your home; after this time the Fire Genie is effectively free and should give you between £130-£180 saving in your fuel usage per year.

Larger fireplaces, anything from 450cm to 1.5m are called ‘specials’ the price of these range from £450 to £850. These fire genies are custom made to suit any size of opening, not only are the savings on your heating bill a lot greater than the standards, but you will be able heat your room to the required temperature.

In some situations the job may be more expensive, in this case our professional installers are able to let you know if there are any additional costs prior to work starting--work will only commence should you wish to go ahead with a purchase on the agreed price. Examples of additional costs would be: side expansion fans to support back boiler installations (supply and fit of these is £60), build-up work for larger openings (typically £25 approx.), reshaping work for smaller/irregular openings, e.g., 14", 15", 19" etc. openings (typically £35-£45).

If you can take some digital pictures of their fireplace, perhaps using a mobile phone and e-mail that to us and we can confirm fairly quickly the price for your fireplace. We would require three digital photographs: one looking dead-on at your fireplace, the second taken from about 1 foot away from your fireplace and directed upwards towards the top of your fireback, and the third aimed straight up your chimney flue, and if possible provide a measurement of the front of your fireplace opening. Once we receive this information we can give you a price for all works involved.


Regards,

Francis Haughey
Managing Director
--------------------------------------------------
So, they sound like a complete Mickey Mouse outfit to me, particularly when there can't be more than about £30-40 worth of worked steel in what is effectively an openable lid for a fireplace!

 

[Ironwill]

Hi,
I have no connection to the company under discussion, but I do make chimney dampers, and have been involved in steel fabrication/blacksmithing for about 25 years, and fireplace/chimneywork for nearly 20yrs. Having come across this thread I would like to make a comment or two !

Firstly- it is a fact that closing off the chimney of your open fire when not in use will reduce your central heating bill considerably and vastly reduce draughts. If everybody did it we would be doing ourselves and the environment a huge favour.

Every time I see a discussion about dampers there will be at least one horrified comment about carbon monoxide poisoning. I’d be the last one to talk down the dangers of CO, and dampers are very sensibly prohibited on gas appliances, but lighting an open wood or solid fuel fire will not produce odourless, invisible CO except accompanied by a lot of smoke which will soon tip off anyone in the room that something’s amiss to put it mildly!

An OPEN fire is also very unlikely to produce CO as opposed to CO2 unless the room is so air tight the fire would be unlikely to draw at the best of times. I am a little concerned by this product’s “eco” setting as it is just possible that an established open fire burning smokeless fuel could burn cleanly enough to pose a risk of undetected gas spillage in this setting. Talk of “near stove like efficiency” or having much control over the rate at which the fire burns by this means on an open fire are also pretty dubious i.m.h.o.

D.I.Y. chimney seals (black bags full of rockwool et.c.) are a cheap fix, but in my experience after removing the sooty and probably damaged lump from the flue, trying to find a home for it while having a fire, and replacing it afterwards, most people either don’t bother lighting the fire again, or don’t bother replacing the “bung” next time. As mentioned on a previous post, it is also advisable to let a little air flow through the chimney at all times to prevent damp from becoming an issue.

As for costs...like many green, “eco” products, a damper may take a while to pay for itself, depending on the house and the number and size of the chimneys, but like many other eco products, the benefits to both your immediate environment and the environment at large are such that it would be worth doing even if they barely paid for themselves. As it is, energy consultants often come up with the figure of a 25% saving in heating costs in homes with dampers fitted, compared to similar properties with permanently open flues. As an investment it certainly ought to out perform new double glazed windows for example. The phone call which convinced me to push chimney dampers as a bigger part of my business came from a green energy consultant who estimated his client could cut 25% off his £27,000 a year heating oil bill ! ( Yes – BIG House!!)

Someone mentioned the cost of these particular dampers being out of proportion to the raw materials involved – as a not very wealthy small business owner I can only remind consumers that a business cannot stay solvent selling products for the price of the raw materials plus the wages of the man who made them. Sales of the product have to pay for r&d, equipment, premises, insurance, holidays, marketing, testing, time spent advising customers, running vehicles and a whole raft of other stuff, and as a small business one pays top dollar for steel, galvanizing et.c compared to mass producers.

I have personally sunk thousands into patenting one type of damper, although for the most part all mine are made to measure, and I would advise purchasers be very wary of “one size fits all” products as there is bound to be compromise involved...most often an unacceptable permanent reduction of the cross section of the flue, which, while unlikely to cause carbon monoxide poisoning, will very likely make the fire more prone to smoking into the room.

 

[Heathrow3]

Hi,
I have no connection to the company under discussion, but I do make chimney dampers, and have been involved in steel fabrication/blacksmithing for about 25 years, and fireplace/chimneywork for nearly 20yrs. Having come across this thread I would like to make a comment or two !

Firstly- it is a fact that closing off the chimney of your open fire when not in use will reduce your central heating bill considerably and vastly reduce draughts. If everybody did it we would be doing ourselves and the environment a huge favour.

Every time I see a discussion about dampers there will be at least one horrified comment about carbon monoxide poisoning. I’d be the last one to talk down the dangers of CO, and dampers are very sensibly prohibited on gas appliances, but lighting an open wood or solid fuel fire will not produce odourless, invisible CO except accompanied by a lot of smoke which will soon tip off anyone in the room that something’s amiss to put it mildly!

An OPEN fire is also very unlikely to produce CO as opposed to CO2 unless the room is so air tight the fire would be unlikely to draw at the best of times. I am a little concerned by this product’s “eco” setting as it is just possible that an established open fire burning smokeless fuel could burn cleanly enough to pose a risk of undetected gas spillage in this setting. Talk of “near stove like efficiency” or having much control over the rate at which the fire burns by this means on an open fire are also pretty dubious i.m.h.o.

D.I.Y. chimney seals (black bags full of rockwool et.c.) are a cheap fix, but in my experience after removing the sooty and probably damaged lump from the flue, trying to find a home for it while having a fire, and replacing it afterwards, most people either don’t bother lighting the fire again, or don’t bother replacing the “bung” next time. As mentioned on a previous post, it is also advisable to let a little air flow through the chimney at all times to prevent damp from becoming an issue.

As for costs...like many green, “eco” products, a damper may take a while to pay for itself, depending on the house and the number and size of the chimneys, but like many other eco products, the benefits to both your immediate environment and the environment at large are such that it would be worth doing even if they barely paid for themselves. As it is, energy consultants often come up with the figure of a 25% saving in heating costs in homes with dampers fitted, compared to similar properties with permanently open flues. As an investment it certainly ought to out perform new double glazed windows for example. The phone call which convinced me to push chimney dampers as a bigger part of my business came from a green energy consultant who estimated his client could cut 25% off his £27,000 a year heating oil bill ! ( Yes – BIG House!!)

Someone mentioned the cost of these particular dampers being out of proportion to the raw materials involved – as a not very wealthy small business owner I can only remind consumers that a business cannot stay solvent selling products for the price of the raw materials plus the wages of the man who made them. Sales of the product have to pay for r&d, equipment, premises, insurance, holidays, marketing, testing, time spent advising customers, running vehicles and a whole raft of other stuff, and as a small business one pays top dollar for steel, galvanizing et.c compared to mass producers.

I have personally sunk thousands into patenting one type of damper, although for the most part all mine are made to measure, and I would advise purchasers be very wary of “one size fits all” products as there is bound to be compromise involved...most often an unacceptable permanent reduction of the cross section of the flue, which, while unlikely to cause carbon monoxide poisoning, will very likely make the fire more prone to smoking into the room.