combi Modulation/Flow Rates/Shower Cartridge/Low flow shower

Joined
16 Jun 2008
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Location
Surrey
Country
United Kingdom
We have recently changed our CH/DHW from an open vented to a sealed system using a WB 24i Junior condensing boiler. At the time it was mentioned that the
cartridge in the aqualisa 405 thermo valve should be replaced with a pink one. Since we will be overhauling the bathroom and rebuilding the wall into
the former airing cupboard and the overly large landing we didn't replace the cartridge, indeed the shower isn't plumbed since it will be relocated to
a different wall.
I have subsequently contacted aqualisa who stated the shower was unbalanced and a pink cartridge should be bought at a cost of £105. Being of tightwad
northern origins :) I am keen to avoid this expense and have discovered it should be possible to use isolationg ball valve and inserts to regulate the
flow. I believe this solution is also better since it is likely to minimise the possibility of scalding etc... To this end can anyone suggest suitable
flow rates for the hot / cold taps in the kitchen and bathroom and the toilet inlet. eg Kitchen cold x litres a minute, toilet y litres, shower cold z litres a minute.

Since the bathroom is now on mains pressure, I am also keen to avoid increasing our water consumption and am thinking about fitting a low flow shower head.
Unfortunatley most of the british companies seem to brag about how much water they can use, rather than how little so I am having a few problems locating
a supplier of this item.
The yanks seem to be the most advanced in this field and a company called Bricor (www.bricor.com) produce a head which uses 1 gallon per minute but
by aerating the water and using a vacuum system feels like it's delivering much more volume. They aren't the only supplier, but opinion from users
seems to be that they are the best. Does anyknow of any British supplier / manufacturer / brand names for low flow shower heads, are they any good ?

I spoke with WB and they said the boiler should be able to modulate down to this level (4.5 lites a minutes from the shower) and the HW flow will still
be activated - note this isn't 4.5 litres of hot since it would be mixed by the valve and I'm not sure if I explained this fact to them.
I believe the HW temp is factory set to 55 Degrees. What temperature is the average shower ? Based on this what proportion of hot / cold would the valve be mixing ? Would this low volume of hot water be fine
to trip the bioler into heat and modulate properly?
When I ran the idea past aqualisa they predictably said I should only use their shower head. Can anyone comment on this configuration ? Will it work ?
Can you see it causing any issues with the shower valve?
What sort of flow rate do you get from a gravity fed system anyhow ? Isn't the point of using a balancing valve to make the flow similar to a gravity fed
system ? Or at least adjust the relative percentage or hot / cold water.
Thanks for you help.
 
Sponsored Links
You have chosen a budget boiler without the facility which most boilers have of setting the DHW temperature!

It will work best with a fair flow rate from your shower.

Why not have shorter showers instead?

Tony
 
Setting the temp at the boiler isn't relevant to my question really. We both like to have our showers at different temperatures so a mixer is required.

What do you mean by a fair flow ? The boiler should be able to cope with a low flow rate, providing this is sufficent for it notice there is a flow.

I intent to take shorter showers, no point wasting litres of water and the subsequent amount of gas required to heat that water if it's simply going to flow down the drain. Actually I intend to buy an egg timer with attached suction cup to fix to the tiles for this purpose.

Can I use flow reducers and keep the existing shower valve? If so which cartridges should I put in the ones for the taps etc..

Will I be able to use a lower flow head with this valve? If not how do the yanks do it ? Is there plumbing that much more advanced than ours ?
 
Sponsored Links
What do you mean by a fair flow ? The boiler should be able to cope with a low flow rate, providing this is sufficent for it notice there is a flow.


Do you say that because you think thats what it will do? Or because you think thats how it should have been designed?

Tony
 
When i calibrate a shower i set it up so the median temp is 39Deg.

Fit pressure reducing valves on your H&C supplies to the shower if you want to keep your low pressure cartridge. The boiler does have a temp control on the HW function.

If you want to be REALLY tight, remember to set your boiler on ECO mode to disable the keep hot fuction!
 
Men shower a bit cooler than women on average. So in a range about 37 - 41. I'm a wimp - 35.

If you use a head designed for an electric shower it'll have small holes, and give a fast spray at low flow rates.

People usually find te LP cartridge is fine on combis - try it!
 
What do you mean by a fair flow ? The boiler should be able to cope with a low flow rate, providing this is sufficent for it notice there is a flow.


Do you say that because you think thats what it will do? Or because you think thats how it should have been designed?

Tony

A mixture of both I guess. I thought that was part the point of modulation, so it can throttle according to the demand ?
I'm beginning to wish I had kept the old system and used a spare radiator to construct a passive solar system. Unfortunately that wouldn't give the mrs the larger bathroom she desires.
 
Fit pressure reducing valves on your H&C supplies to the shower if you want to keep your low pressure cartridge. The boiler does have a temp control on the HW function.

Thats a good point, I bought a pressure testing device and put it on a garden tap. This seal wasn't great so it was spraying water. The reading was 7 bar. The tap has an isolating valve on it (not full bore) so I assume the mains pressure is a little more than this.

Aqualisa said the following

If you have changed to a combination boiler you will need to change the
internal cartridge to a pink coloured one this will reduce the flow of cold
water which will then allow the hot and cold to balance. The cost of the
new cartridge is £105 incl VAT and will come with a 3 year guarentee.

So do I really need a PRV ? I've bought a flow regulator ball valve (www.bes.co.uk part 17527) and a 10 litre per minute cartridge which I intend to fit to the cold supply.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top