Concealed Buildings and Planning Permission

[earnie]

As I'm sure most of you have seen in the news recently, the couple who were living in their 'garage' which was a concealed house and a few years ago, the guy who built a castle and hid it under hay bales.... It got me thinking and doing research!

I then found a family who had built a house in woodland but were allowed to stay as they didn't conceal their building and engaged with the community. They just want a nice house and as nobody noticed for over 4 years, I think this is fine.

So from a moral perspective, if someone is dishonest or intentionally plans to mislead someone, they get punished..... This seems reasonable!

My question is (and yes I'm fully aware of moral implications and breach of planning etc), that I've been a long term advocate of underground housing, from a cost, lifestyle and sustainability angle...... Plus I just want one!! Clearly as it is underground, it will be almost impossible to see, but as it is hard to see, by design.... I won't have intentionality concealed it, even though I'm conscious it will be effectively concealed!!

So provided, all I want is a nice underground house, on my own land, which shouldn't annoy the neighbors as they won't even see it (and depending on depth, the area could remain effectively untouched....

What are people's thoughts?

 

[GeoffJ]

One would assume that there would be no indication for the emergency services to use that would indicate your presence? There are all sorts of scenarios where this could be a big problem for you/family.

Will you have visitors or receive post?

Will you insure the property?

 

[earnie]

I'm not planning to sneak my way in like this..... Clearly, when my plans for world domination start, I'll seek appropriate permissions and registrations to make my 'underground lair' as homely as possible!!

But in effect, yes.... Other than maybe an entrance or two, there would be no indication of a property there! So in that sense, is it concealed (clearly yes).... But it had to be concealed, because if it wasn't, it wouldn't be underground!

It's not concealed in order to be hidden, to hide from planning law.... It's just hidden because that's the kind of house!!

 

[tony1851]

Where would you park cars? and what about an access road?
And construction traffic will be flagged up, surely?
You would be running a big risk. If it's going to be so unobtrusive, why not prepare a really good planning statement and make a formal application?

 

[earnie]

I've already said (flippantly) I will do it properly with appropriate permissions!!

For the purposes of this hypothetical question, I will have a satellite internet connection, harvest my own solar power, reverse osmosis my own water and travel in by jet pack!! I will do all of these things from a remote site 10km away and lay the wires (Accounting for voltage drop) and walk in discretely at night!! I also will use a PO Box and generally communicate via email.

Plus, the council didn't notice the hay bale guy smuggling his portcullis and drawbridge in..... As they didn't notice the garage people taking a bath into their garage.....

I guess my main question is; the hay bale guy and the house in a garage people, actively deceived the planning authority by concealing or misrepresentation. The family in the woods, we're just hidden due to isolation. All 3 cases are just as illegal, but the family in the woods wins morally as they didn't actually lie or conceal!


So if deception is 'the line' that will qualify for the 4 year rule; an house is hidden within something (an outer skin of garage or hay or the earth), but an underground house has to be as that is its intent by design..... The house will be actively hidden, but is it deception??

 

[RichA]

The council would argue yes, you would have to convince otherwise, a judge would decide...

I think if you add anything that does the concealing then that is actively hidden. So if you dig a hole, do the building and then cover over with earth, shrubs, etc - then you are actively concealing.

So a house in the woods is ok, because the woods were already there, whilst the hay bales were added. (If they build a front door behind a garage door then IMO that should be allowed).

 

[earnie]

That makes sense..... What about burrowing down directly? So instead of making a hole and recovering the hole and house.... Making a hole and building from within?

 

[earnie]

Or from another angle.....

I dig (hypothetically..... Don't moan), a hole!! A big hole and then build a big house in the hole!!

It's not hidden, and I've not added to enhance its concealment, but again, it'll be difficult to see as its below the surrounding area.

Firstly, thoughts on that.........



Then, let's say it does qualify after 4 years! Would would happen if I then wanted to hide my house and bury it?? Surely they're would be no arguement from anyone if you were going to replace a stupid hole with a house in, to nice flat ground as it was before??

While I'm on the subject, could I legally hide my house (as in my actual house now, which is entirely certified) now, with hay bales or just erect a huge marquee over it??



And again, These are entirely thoughts and musings, so I get from a real world and logistical angle, they're mental..... I'm just after knowledge!!

 

[Notch7]

I think the planing rules now say deliberate attempts to conceal mean adverse possession rules dont apply. That means there is no time limit for planning enforcement to act.

Still on the bright side, no newspaper could say 'his house will have to be knocked down'.

 

[Footsoldier888]

earnie if you want help on this I suggest you get a copy of the off grid manual 'How to live off grid' by Nick Rosen. The author does discuss these issues and there are good reference links to people with extensive knowledge of the planning process with regard to projects like yours. Basically the book said it is all a lot easier in Wales!

Thinking about your idea of excavating a big hole, what you are likely to get is a swimming pool! It is impossible to keep the water out, the sad reality is you would need tons and tons of concrete to stop the water coming up.

A more realistic plan might be to look at adding a caravan or earth shelter on to a derelict building like a hut of some kind. It probably won't work in the long run but it would buy some time before the enforcement notice came.

You are right in thinking that every case is different though. The family in the woods may have been self sufficient if there was a smallholding, there have been a few cases of buildings being allowed on smallholdings. They are not keen on actual wood dwellings though, if they didn't clamp down very hard on those then everybody would be at it! Smallholdings in semi rural areas are more tolerated than open countryside or woods.

 

[Notch7]

Honeycrock farm -the castle behind strawbales is only 8 miles from me. Never been past it though!

The pics of it look really good. What a doughnut for doing it though!

 

[garyo]

Ignore the naysayers. I think you could be on to something here. We could solve the housing crisis if we grab the boring machines at the end of the crossrail project, then set them off digging a sequence of horizontal tower blocks 10 metres under the greenbelt.

The amazon delivery bot could just drop my takeaway down a delivery shaft. I can't see a downside.

 

[tony1851]

Honeycrock farm -the castle behind strawbales is only 8 miles from me. QUOTE]
What? Didn't know it was in the Caymen Islands

 

[earnie]

Ignore the naysayers. I think you could be on to something here. We could solve the housing crisis if we grab the boring machines at the end of the crossrail project, then set them off digging a sequence of horizontal tower blocks 10 metres under the greenbelt.

The amazon delivery bot could just drop my takeaway down a delivery shaft. I can't see a downside.

Garyo.... I'd still have my jet pack for light shopping!! Boreing machines, point them north and we could have the biggest terraced street in Europe!!

Footsoldier...... Why shouldn't people be at it.... That family have integrated and lived with their neighbors for over 4 years With no adverse issues!! If somewhere can survive for that long without contest, then clearly the real life application of a house in that specific circumstance, is much more of a standardised benchmark than a planning officers opinion!!!


With all of this, I am entirely hypthesising.... Fact is, I've been round a few bunkers (don't ask why, I'd have to murder you), and whilst this is crown property.... The end goal is entirely different from a catastrophic contingency, to a fully inhabited residence!!

So I fail to see why, my dream... Of a little underground house (ok, not little... Footprint of a 4 bedroom detached) which cannot even be seen from the outside world, the floor plan would be small, just deep and it would take up room, which is currently redundant!! Ultimately, is my own land and im well within my right to put a huge marquee up which will affect people more than the flat field which it currently is!!

Yes, the arguements will come of effect to wildlife.... I'll pick a mole sympathetic area!! What about sewerage, frankly, if I haven't planned this, I deserve to be sleeping in my own effluence!!

In essence, if I own my own land, and want to construct a house. I use competent and qualified people to help me construct my house so that it is safe (again, there is a bit of me that thinks if I'm willing to live in a death trap, is on my own head, literally).... What say do an LPA have as it's my own land and will not affect anyone! It's a house they haven't built, on land (well, under) they do not own, complying with safety standards they set, which would free up an existing house for someone else to live in...... Seems a no brainer, but then again, I'm colossally biased!!

All I want is to live how I want to live in land that I have earned and bought..... Why does that make us bad people?

Again..... All this is hypothetical!!

 

[Ian H]

I've been reasesrching underground living for a while and plan to move into a place in the future.

I found some prefab underground houses, nice and cosy that you can choose off plan or design your own. You then just dig the hole, move on and get it backfilled.




They even sell them on e-bay:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/253422188002

All I want is to live how I want to live in land that I have earned and bought..... Why does that make us bad people?

I completely agreee with you there, what has it got to do with the local council what you do with what you own. If you have bought it you should be able to do what you want.