Connecting gas fire

[steq184]

I am in the middle of building a false chimney breast for my flueless coal fire, have already put up the fire resistant plasterboard, just need the fire connected so I can get the chimney breast plastered and put in the Limestone firplace surround, I have already put in a new vent as advised by the fires paperwork.
I am going to get in a gas fitter to connect etc for this but want to try and keep the cost down.
The fire is to be fed by a 8mm?? pipe that has to go through the external wall and connect up to an existing 22mm pipe feeding my cooker hob and boiler from an exterior pipe. Total run would be about 3 metres.
Questions I have are:
1:
Will the gas fitter use 22mm pipe from the external feed already present and reduce down to 8mm in the fireplace, this would be best for me as I have a couple of 22mm pipes left over from when I had a new boiler fitted recently so if he used these hopefully he'd lower his price.

2:
What size hole will need to be drilled through the wall?
If he uses the 22mm pipe I guess it would need sleeving with 28mm pipe, am I correct in this? If so I will have the hole already drilled ready for him.

3:
I want all the gas feed to the fire to be out of view inside the false chimney breast, is this allowed if he put an isolator on the external feed to the fire which is in my back garden?

Your help greatly appreciated as always

 

[Space cat]

We have two regular (flued) gas fires and each has an 8mm chrome plated supply pipe. These pipes connect to matching outlets that sit on the floor. They don't look like much, just small, chrome plated pillars, but they have isolation valves concealed beneath a screw cap. They allow the fires to be removed, complete with their 8mm pipes, leaving the outlets on the floor.

Under the floor, 15mm pipe is soldered into brass couplings that appear to be screwed into the outlets above. This 15mm pipe then goes most of the way back to the meter where it tees into the 22mm boiler supply pipe.

It's a very neat way of doing things and, hopefully, you'll get something similar.

 

[Stingray13]

I am in the middle of building a false chimney breast for my flueless coal fire,

Really? Is this another windup if this is a mistake sorry but i stopped reading after your flueless coal fire!

 

[expertgasman]

It amazes me that folk spend time asking qustions on a forum, when clearly, they should be asking their RGI - if there is one!

Why on earth are you considering fitting the fire BEFORE plastering and building the fireplace. Get your man to explain the order of operation or it will end in tears.

Please do not phone me, I will be too expensive for you.

Don't listen to the expected incoming nonsense about dangerous f'less fires. ALL gas applinaces are dangerous in the wrong hands, and F'less have the BEST safety record.

Unless you bought a Focal Pointless from B&Q. Which I suspect you did.

 

[Agile]

I am in the middle of building a false chimney breast for my flueless coal fire, have already put up the fire resistant plasterboard, just need the fire connected

Your help greatly appreciated as always

The safety aspects of a flueless coal fire are horrendous!

Do you want the coal fire connected directly to the coal mine?

 

[expertgasman]

The safety aspects of a flueless coal fire are horrendous!

Rubbish as usual Tony. Any actual facts to share? Apart from the well documented tragic case where FP and B&Q conspired with an inept installer?

Let's ban barbecues. 2 deaths in a couple of weeks. That's without considering the dodgy sausages.

 

[steq184]

Lets just stick to trying to help me........if you've got too much time on your hands go and bore someone else.
That's why Facebook was created don't you know.
Any genuine help greatly appreciated thankyou very much

 

[steq184]

Fire is from Ekofires..........

 

[Agile]

The safety aspects of a flueless coal fire are horrendous!

Rubbish as usual Tony. Any actual facts to share?

An Ethopian Professor of pathology told me that he saw about 7-8 cases of CO poisoning each year in his country resulting from coal fires with inadequate ventilation.

Tony

 

[Space cat]

The safety aspects of a flueless coal fire are horrendous!

Do you want the coal fire connected directly to the coal mine?

Yes, I laughed at that bit too - and nearly put a comment in. Then I realized that the OP meant 'coal effect'. (The 8mm pipe was a dead giveaway. You wouldn't get much coal through that! )

While we're at it --

Way off topic I know, and call me a pedant if you like, but can some of the posters on DIYnot please learn how to spell "silicone". You cannot buy 'silicon sealer' from any hardware shop that I know of.

 

[Agile]

Steq, if its a gas connection required to an external 22mm pipe then it would be usual to run the new external pipe in 15mm as thats cheaper and easier to work on.

That could be sleeved in 22 mm copper or better a smaller plastic tube.

It would be unusual to run any 8 mm tube outside as it would generally be considered to lack the mechanical strength to be safe from accidental or intentional damage.

I dont see any reason not to fit an extenal isolating valve but it would be normal to fit one internally if there was not one on the fire itself.

The gas regulations for fires are quite involved and anything slightly unusual is best checked first to make sure it does not conflict with any prohibition.

Many installers are wary of fitting flueless gas fires because they can so easily become dangerous if not installed, commissioned or used correctly.

Tony

 

[kirkgas]

Lets just stick to trying to help me........if you've got too much time on your hands go and bore someone else.
That's why Facebook was created don't you know.
Any genuine help greatly appreciated thankyou very much

i am an industry expert and i will offer you genuine well intended expert advice, get a registered gas person to visit discuss and quote for the work, it is the only way to sort the job properly, if you are at the stage of wanting to use spare pipe you have in the garage etc then you will need to be careful, i use "victor meldrew syndrome" for this type of thing, say he does use your pipe and it develops a fault, who will be to blame, you will say his installation methods and he will say your pipe, it really isnt worth the trouble, nothing wrong with a customer wanting to minimise the bill, and by doing prep work for me it saves me time and hassle but it needs to be done with full proper planning, the way i would do the job will be different to the way someone else will so get him on site to discuss before you do anything or it will end in tears.

 

[Space cat]

I'll second kirkgas on all of that. Compared to the cost of the whole job, pipe is cheap.

PS: I would want the isolating valve on the inside. Perhaps the kind we have can be fixed to external walls with 15mm pipe coming in through the wall instead of up through the floor - but make sure nobody can use it as a foothold for climbing!

 

[expertgasman]

Fire is from Ekofires..........

I thought so. Ekofires is Focal Point with a very nice brochure.

Seriously: If it is not too late, telephone them and ask for the service departement. Tell them you are considering purchasing their fire, but you are concerned about the warranty element. Ask them how theirs works - you will be F****** gob smacked. I HAVE done this and this is their version of customer service, (obviously a truncated version)

Question: How do I obtain an in warranty call out, it is freezing cold and I do not want to put on my heating, that is why I am buying a fire?

Answer: Simple. Please post us your receipted and dated sales invoice. If it is over 1 year old, we also need a copy of the signed and dated service report.

Me: I don't want to send the originals, and why can't you look at them when you call.

Them. Send us copies, we can't call until we get them , as it might not be our fire (I promise you she said that)


Me: But that means I would have to go somewhere to get copies, then post them. How quick would you respond.

Her: You will get a phone call within 2 working days to arrange a visit

Me: Then what. How quick will the visit be?

Her: |Depends on how busy they are.

Me: What do you mean, THEY

Her: We use agents

Me: How quick

Her. No more than 2 weeks.

Me: I would be freezing. Do they bring parts?

Her: Depends on the part

Me: I 'll buy a Burley. good day

There is nothing wrong with flueless fires - but FP is TERRIBLE. We run a showroom, and wish we could honestly recommend them as they are cheap. But the firm is so bad, we won't, which ultimately costs us sales.

Good luck, but PLEASE speak to an RGI as soon as.

 

[Agile]

I think that you need to realise that many appliance manufactures do not consider that a wait of 2-3 weeks is unreasonable.

One of my customers was told 6-7 weeks for their shower unit !

At least boiler manufacturers usually do it in 1-3 days most of the time.

On Monday, I needed a warrantee replacement PCB for a new boiler and without any problem they sent it out for before 0930 delivery the next day for me to fit. I was impressed with that.

Tony