Constructing a cabin in the garden - separate utilities?

[d000hg]

We're getting quotes to have a log cabin put in our (large) garden. With full utilities i.e it will have a kitchen and bathroom. We'd anticipated taking a spur from our house electrical supply (and water) and burying a shielded cable with a separate box in the cabin, but the first builder who came pointed out that since it is a distance from the house, this might not be allowable under regs depending on what amperage we need.

Chatting at the weekend to a mate with experience in the trade, he was strongly advocating just getting a separate supply from day 1. I'd always just assumed this was incredibly expensive but he pointed out it's done all the time for new houses and isn't "black magic".

We are in the country, the only house 100m up a private lane and our electricity is from a suspended cable running up this lane from the road. The garden bounds the lane leading up to the house so there is a pole right next (10m) to where the cabin would go. The house is approx 30m away from the cabin site.

So I'd welcome any thoughts here. On comparative difficulty, cost, regs impact of the two approaches. To request a new supply, who do I even contact... my energy provider or NorthernPowerGrid? My mate advised they can prepare the supply but not connected, so that when the cabin is built it's all ready to be hooked up - is that correct, I can pay to have a supply taken off the cable but not have an active provider until we use it?

Clearly I am pretty ignorant here so any help on the steps to take would be great.

(I have similar questions about water and gas supply but guess I should have a similar thread in the plumbing sub-forum for that?)

Thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We're getting quotes to have a log cabin put in our (large) garden. With full utilities i.e it will have a kitchen and bathroom.

Check what you need wrt planning permission and Building Regulations approval. The latter certainly applies to the electrical work.

the first builder who came pointed out that since it is a distance from the house, this might not be allowable under regs depending on what amperage we need.

A salutary example of why you should not use builders to do electrical work.

Chatting at the weekend to a mate with experience in the trade, he was strongly advocating just getting a separate supply from day 1. I'd always just assumed this was incredibly expensive but he pointed out it's done all the time for new houses and isn't "black magic".

It isn't black magic but it isn't cheap. It's done all the time for new houses because that's what has to be done. It's like arguing that metalled roads with drainage and lighting aren't "black magic" or expensive because they are done all the time for new houses.

We are in the country, the only house 100m up a private lane and our electricity is from a suspended cable running up this lane from the road. The garden bounds the lane leading up to the house so there is a pole right next (10m) to where the cabin would go. The house is approx 30m away from the cabin site.

30m is no distance at all - your first builder was talking nonsense.

So I'd welcome any thoughts here. On comparative difficulty, cost, regs impact of the two approaches. To request a new supply, who do I even contact... my energy provider or NorthernPowerGrid?

Your DNO. They install the infrastructure, you then choose who to buy the electricity from. But unless you want separate metering and billing I really can't see why you'd need a separate supply.

You do need to discuss the increased load with them though, with you being at the end of a long supply cable.

Clearly I am pretty ignorant here so any help on the steps to take would be great.

A step you should take very soon is getting an electrician on board.

(I have similar questions about water and gas supply but guess I should have a similar thread in the plumbing sub-forum for that?)

Indeed.

Don't forget the drainage connections - you'll need a quote and permission from the water company for that, too.

I suggest being sat down when you open the quote for the gas supply.

 

[winston1]

Having a second supply will mean 2 sets of standing charges for ever. Do you want that?
For gas you could consider the LPG bottled version. May be cheaper to put in but somewhat more expensive to use.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you do go for a piped gas supply, and the route of the pipe follows the path to the building, you could consider gas lamps to light the way. Normally the cost of running a supply to them makes them prohibitively expensive to install, but if it's going in anyway, the extra cost to supply a few lamp posts on the way might be OK, and gas is a lovely type of light to have in a garden.

 

[d000hg]

Not too concerned about that to be honest if it's neater... a) it's a drop in the ocean for our detached Victorian house b) should we use it for any sort of business we can claim the cost back which is difficult otherwise

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I would have thought that private sub-main metering would be fine for identifying a business expense?

 

[JohnW2]

Can one claim for 'retrospective business expenses' (i.e. expenses which arose before the business started?

 

[d000hg]

Can one claim for 'retrospective business expenses' (i.e. expenses which arose before the business started?

Within reason I think so

 

[ericmark]

What you or anyone hear does not know is how much power is available without new cables and transformer, it may be by having two supplies you can get more then 100A which is the normal largest fuse fitted to a domestic supply, if you need the extra power then separate supply may be way to go.

However my son rewired his house and moved the position of the consumer unit, during this work he as a double socket for everything in the house, on the odd time a fuse would blow, but for a year he ran on just two 13A supplies, we use a lot less than we first think.

The on site guide does give help working out what you need, however most consumer units the largest MCB which will fit is 45A, so in the main out buildings will not normally have more than a 45A supply.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

.... so in the main out buildings supplied from a CU will not normally have more than a 45A supply...

 

[d000hg]

I think in practical terms it would not be an issue although I've no idea what sort of performance considerations a 30m cable would cause - it's effectively a 1-bed cottage I'd guess. LED lights, a washing machine, a microwave. The big unknowns are if the oven and heating would be electric.
I'm pretty sure if I Heath Robinsonned it off a spare fuse in my house it would work just like a garage often works. BUT the regs are pretty specific. I'm not sure where the regs would come into force doing it this way - if my main fuse-box would need replacing or if a suitable cable could be laid up to it and put on a dedicated fuse.

A separate supply would mean fewer trenches in the garden and less disruption to the house but I'm not sure how easy this is to do or how expensive. As I say, the extra running cost once it's in is not a huge problem but if the power board will want thousands...

 

[d000hg]

For gas you could consider the LPG bottled version. May be cheaper to put in but somewhat more expensive to use.

WE're off-topic but that's actually a great thought. Thanks.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think in practical terms it would not be an issue although I've no idea what sort of performance considerations a 30m cable would cause

None, apart from considering the length of the cable when deciding how large it has to be.

It's effectively a 1-bed cottage I'd guess. LED lights, a washing machine, a microwave. The big unknowns are if the oven and heating would be electric.

Why aren't you discussing all this with your electrician?

I'm pretty sure if I Heath Robinsonned it off a spare fuse in my house it would work just like a garage often works. BUT the regs are pretty specific. I'm not sure where the regs would come into force doing it this way - if my main fuse-box would need replacing or if a suitable cable could be laid up to it and put on a dedicated fuse.

The regulations (both electrical and Building) apply no matter how it is done.

You are absolutely not going to be able to DIY this, so find an electrician and discuss the options with him.

A separate supply would mean fewer trenches in the garden

Gas... Water... Drainage... Data/phone...

I'd be surprised if a cable could not go in a trench you're going to have to have anyway.

but if the power board will want thousands...

Ask them - they are the only people who can tell you.