Consumer Unit Stacking Kits

[Click4]

Hi,

Just wondered if anybody else has had to use these before, and if you would use it?

just asking because, the existing meter cuboard has gas, and electric meter and existing consumer unit.

consumer unit is mounted on the side wall of the cuboard above the gas meter, and at 1 end almost touching the electricity service head... as that is mounted on the back wall... total distance from facing edge of cutout fuse and cuboard door is only 400mm.

width of cuboard is only 500mm.. but 1 corner is completely boxed off because of a soil pipe. So space is very tight and limited... not really my ideal choice for it due to working space but it is where it is.

BS6891-2005
8.16.2 Separation of installation pipework from other services

Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating material, they shall be spaced as follows:
a) at least 150 mm away from
electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical
switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units;
b) at least 25mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

Presently, it is not 150mm away its more like 50mm..could get round that by insulating the pipes with electrical insulating material but new consumer unit is bigger and just about fits due to it being split load dual rcd, and also splitting some circuits correctly, but even then its doesnt allow for one as big as I would like because there would be no spares.

So can either use 2 smaller consumer units and stack them, or go down the more expensive route of all RCBOs which can use a smaller consumer unit.

Just wondered what other peoples preferences would be.

 

[Chri5]

I thought most meter boxes were "don" owned and as such the cu is a squatter.

Put cu on the internal side of the wall?

 

[Iggifer]

I would go for an all RCBO board. Would never go back - used to get Nusiance trips every now and again having just one RCD. Since installing the RBCBO board have had 1 trip which was an overcurrent rather than earth fault.

Trip times are amazingly fast too + saved two ways in the new CU not having an RCD (4 ways if it was split load)

 

[Click4]

I thought most meter boxes were "don" owned and as such the cu is a squatter.

Put cu on the internal side of the wall?

its not a meter box, it is a cuboard in the corner of the hallway running from floor to ceiling which houses the gas and electric meters, and soil waste pipe in 1 corner.

 

[Click4]

I would go for an all RCBO board. Would never go back - used to get Nusiance trips every now and again having just one RCD. Since installing the RBCBO board have had 1 trip which was an overcurrent rather than earth fault.

Trip times are amazingly fast too + saved two ways in the new CU not having an RCD (4 ways if it was split load)

yeah, thats what I was thinking, just the cost of the RCBOs lol need about 10 of them.

Lighting Upstairs
Lighting Downstairs
Sockets Upstairs
Sockets Downstairs
Kitchen
Cooker
Shower
Boiler
Smoke Alarms
Fridge + Freezer

Was going to fit 3 anyway, but to change rest to RCBO would be another over £150 extra.

 

[JohnW2]

So can either use 2 smaller consumer units and stack them, or go down the more expensive route of all RCBOs which can use a smaller consumer unit.

I've heard of (and a couple of times seen) people mounting CUs vertically (i.e. 90° to normal orientation) when width-space was limited. I intuitively wonder whether the devices within it (MCBs, RCDs, RCBOs etc.) function OK 'horizontally' - but that's what usually happens in 3-phase boards, isn't it - in which case it presumably must be OK.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Iggifer]

Depending on how the cables for the smokes are installed, it's FP presumably, you might not want that RCBO protected anyway

 

[Click4]

So can either use 2 smaller consumer units and stack them, or go down the more expensive route of all RCBOs which can use a smaller consumer unit.

I've heard of (and a couple of times seen) people mounting CUs vertically (i.e. 90° to normal orientation) when width-space was limited. I intuitively wonder whether the devices within it (MCBs, RCDs, RCBOs etc.) function OK 'horizontally' - but that's what usually happens in 3-phase boards, isn't it - in which case it presumably must be OK.

Kind Regards, John

interestingly enough I was reading a debate earlier on the IET forums about that... when i was looking for a solution lol.

It seemed to be a split oppinion issue... with some arguing theres no problem with it, and others saying that its against manufacturers installation instructions and that the MCBs arent designed to work sideways unlike in a TP&N panel

http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/...d=48044&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

to quote some arguments,

1/ Some manufactures make the MCBs to go in 3 phase boards horizontally so in that case operationally I see no problem.

2/ Expectancy - in a single phase CU the expectation (and the labelling) is for vertical - would a "ordinary person" be unduly confused by this and therefore safety impaired?

Manufactures give the sizes of the CU so if you decide to mount it 90 degrees out you are going against their spec and it is up to you to confirm that it will still comply with their spec, so going back to the original post, Yes it is OK to mount the CU horizontal as long as you have comformation that it will still comply BS EN 60439-3 and remember to read the paperwork that comes with all equipment and the tiny little smal print that is normally there somewhere that says you should leave the paperwork with the customer for their future reff

 

[Click4]

Depending on how the cables for the smokes are installed, it's FP presumably, you might not want that RCBO protected anyway

They are mains voltage interlinked detectors with self contained lithium battery backups.. Ei is the make.. 2 CO detectors, 1 Optical and Heat, 2 Optical, 1 heat which go back to Ei remote test switch.

 

[Iggifer]

Depending on how the cables for the smokes are installed, it's FP presumably, you might not want that RCBO protected anyway

They are mains voltage interlinked detectors with self contained lithium battery backups.. Ei is the make.. 2 CO detectors, 1 Optical and Heat, 2 Optical, 1 heat which go back to Ei remote test switch.

I meant unless the cables require RCD protection, <50mm deep / not mechanically protected etc I wouldn't want the smokes on an RCD.

How would you know if it had tripped if it was on an RCBO?

 

[Click4]

Depending on how the cables for the smokes are installed, it's FP presumably, you might not want that RCBO protected anyway

They are mains voltage interlinked detectors with self contained lithium battery backups.. Ei is the make.. 2 CO detectors, 1 Optical and Heat, 2 Optical, 1 heat which go back to Ei remote test switch.

I meant unless the cables require RCD protection, <50mm deep / not mechanically protected etc I wouldn't want the smokes on an RCD.

How would you know if it had tripped if it was on an RCBO?

These detectors have a light on every detector to indicate charging, and when the voltage in the backup drops too much they start bleeping.

 

[JohnW2]

interestingly enough I was reading a debate earlier on the IET forums about that... when i was looking for a solution lol. It seemed to be a split oppinion issue... with some arguing theres no problem with it, and others saying that its against manufacturers installation instructions and that the MCBs arent designed to work sideways unlike in a TP&N panel

That doesn't surprise me! As for MIs for the CUs, I've just looked at a few, and they all appear to be silent (text-wise) on the question of orientation of installation, although all their piccies and diagrams (and specification of 'width' and 'height') relate to them 'the expected way up'. As for MCBs and RCBOs, although I don't often see 3-phase boards, when I do any SP MCBs or RCBs seem to be the same ones (horizontal) that would expect to see in a single-phase board (vertical). Indeed, looking at the Wylex NH A (single-phase, vertical devices) and NH B (3-phase, horizontal devices) DBs, they specify exactly the same MCBs and RCBOs for both - so one has to presume that they are not orientation-sensitive. I confess to be a little surprised - I might have expected some thermal issues (and maybe consequent 'de-rating' factors) when they were mounted 'horizontally'.

However, I can't say that any of that would make me feel particularly comfortable looking at a domestic CU mounted 'vertically'! It just doesn't seem/feel right

Kind Regards, John

 

[Click4]

Hi,

Yep, I know what you mean lol, which brings me back to original question... stacker kit, or RCBOs.. just RCBOs will add circa £150-180 to the cost.. hmm.

 

[JohnW2]

Yep, I know what you mean lol, which brings me back to original question... stacker kit, or RCBOs.. just RCBOs will add circa £150-180 to the cost.. hmm.

It's almost down to the customer's choice isn't it? There's nothing really wrong aesthetically with stacked CUs, so it's a really a question of whether the (I would personally feel small**) 'electrical' advantage of having all RCBOs is felt to justify that additional cost?

I have to say that I've never attempted to wire an all-RCBO CU, and I'm not sure I'd particularly fancy doing it with many makes of CU enclosure - I imagine things can get pretty crowded/tight, particularly with some of the higher CSA cables, don't they?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Iggifer]

I imagine things can get pretty crowded/tight, particularly with some of the higher CSA cables, don't they?

Don't know about other brands, but Eaton do an extra height CU, especially for an all RCBO install, board is identical to its standard counterpart, just slightly taller to give the RCBO's more headroom