Consumer Unit Upgrade

[alanthomaswatson]

All

Yet another little project for the house!

I currently have an old fashioned fuse board. It's an old wylex unit and I'd like to have this replaced with a new consumer unit. Prior to asking the electrician to come round and price this for me I'd like to be sure of the full scope of what needs to be done. Don't worry; no intention of tackling this myself.

Old unit has cartridge fuses, and there are currently connections for:

Lights
Sockets
Shower
Cooker

I'd like the new unit to have separate switches for:

Upstairs lights
Downstairs lights
Upstairs sockets
Downstairs sockets
Cooker
Boiler
Shower

Our previous sparky mentioned that the earth bonding wiring needs to be upgraded. We're also still on the old red and black wiring.

1. Am I able to do a straight swap for a new consumer unit?
2. Can I have any size unit or is one for each of the above plus a couple of spares sufficient?
3. Will the old wiring require replacement due to regs of any kind?
4. I presume the sockets and the lighting circuits will have to be 'split' to allow separate connections for upstairs and down. Is this particularly difficult?
5. The old unit is sited on a cellar wall. Is there anything preventing the new unit taking the same position (i.e resistance to damp etc)?


Thanks in advance for any and all assistance.

 

[scarypants]

Having your upstairs and downstairs sockets on different breakers may be a problem if they are currently on one circuit, same with the lights, so this could need looking in to a little deeper, likely a PIR worth doing to make sure the current installation is healthy enough to be worth just connecting new cu and not a rewire, should not be a problem installing it in original location providing enviromental condition are suitable.
theres is nothing wrong with red and black core colours providing the cables are healthy. but your electrician will point all this out to you, worth getting three separate quotes.

 

[ericmark]

Our previous sparky mentioned that the earth bonding wiring needs to be upgraded. We're also still on the old red and black wiring.

1. Am I able to do a straight swap for a new consumer unit?

The swap is not the problem it is what other faults may be found

2. Can I have any size unit or is one for each of the above plus a couple of spares sufficient?

If you look in screwfix you will see standard sizes and yes a couple of extra ways seems good idea.

3. Will the old wiring require replacement due to regs of any kind?

Not because of colours but it may have other problems

4. I presume the sockets and the lighting circuits will have to be 'split' to allow separate connections for upstairs and down. Is this particularly difficult?

The stairs can cause problems and with the lighting load reducing can't see why one would want to spend out to separate energy saving bulbs use a lot less power.

5. The old unit is sited on a cellar wall. Is there anything preventing the new unit taking the same position (i.e resistance to damp etc)?

It would depend on how bad etc. But normally not a problem.

The thing you need to think about is

(iii) take account of danger that may arise from the failure of a single circuit such as a lighting circuit
(iv) reduce the possibility of unwanted tripping of RCDs due to excessive protective conductor currents produced by equipment in normal operation

You may need to fit emergency lights if they are on same RCD as sockets and there are two main ways to comply with (iv) one is just two main RCD's and the other is using RCOB's since a straight change would only require 4 RCBO's I would consider using all RCBO's as however you try unless you fit emergency lights with just 2 RCD's it is likely to trip. You can get auto-resetting but at £230 each not really something I would use unless occupant was disabled.

 

[bananaman]

First, I am not a qualified electrician. Just a very dissatisfied customer of a "qualified" electrician.

You are walking into a minefield here. My very recent experiences make me say this. (See recent post).

In electrical terms, qualified does NOT imply competent, in my view. Neither does it imply honesty or respect for a customer.

I have reluctantly concluded that there were a lot of idiots in the right place and/or the right time when the Part P regulations came along a few years ago.

You should spend a lot of time researching your options and choosing an electrician before you even think of inviting one into your house to work on your electrical system. Even then, like me, you may be unlucky enough to fall victim to this ridiculous, overegulated system.

Be very, very careful and don't believe a single thing a prospective electrician tells you unless you have checked the facts yourself. Good luck. You will need it.

 

[scarypants]

bananaman,
That's a very sad indictment and to tar all electricians with the brush is a little annoying.
Hey you've had a bad experience, have we not all had one of them.
Best means of finding honesty and quality is by word of mouth, i'd rather use someone who was recommend to me than someone who was not, doesn't mean I'd trust them any less though.
If in doubt search fo electricians that are on a competent persons scheme(registered domestic installer)

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[securespark]

Never mind the foreseeable...I can't see it ever getting better. In fact, you may as well jack it all in & climb into your lined box.

 

[JonoPashley]

And once again the doom mongers are out in force, man up or things will never change.

 

[bananaman]

Let me explain further why I have such a poor view of electricians:

Due to pending work in my house, it was decided that we would upgrade our consumer unit. I had previously done all of the electrical work in my house - prior to Part P regulations coming into force. There had been no recent work and all of my circuits have been trouble free since installation, quite a few years ago.

I started looking for an electrician to do the work a few months ago. I was determined to ensure that I complied with all regulations etc and that the job was done correctly.

I have received several quotes/estimates since then. I finally selected a contractor. I was very concerned that my entire house power supply was effectively under the scrutiny and control of a complete stranger and I might just have, metaphorically speaking, the gun put to my head. That is exactly what has happened. I won't bore you with the details. But I will make the following observations:

1. How can such a closely regulated industry produce quotes/estimates that vary by as much as 300 percent?
2. How can the advice and extent of required work described by a reasonable sample of electricians (>4) vary so widely? After all, I was careful to describe my requirements equally to all electricians consulted.
3. How can such a closely regulated industry allow supposedly qualified electricians to deliberately confuse their customers and blur the distinction between required work (mandatory) and desirable work that they prefer to do for additional profit?

So, at the moment, I have an installation that in my view does not meet my clearly stated requirements. In some respects, it clearly seems to be less safe than the previous arrangement.

I am sat here looking at this electricians business card. It mentions the following:
BS7671
NICEIC approved
Trustmark registered
etc etc

To what lengths am I supposed to go to, to verify the credentials of an electrician? Why is it that such a closely regulated industry is so heavily weighted in favour of the practitioners, while the customer is left with little or no power or influence? In other words, the regulations serve to restrict the freedom and influence of the paying customer, while protecting the power and interests of the industry. The idea that I should rely on word of mouth to employ a suitable electrician is understandable, but rather revealing about the state of the industry.

Oh and by the way, the electrician I employed coudn't be bothered issuing a certificate for his work straight away. It later emerged that he will do that at some point in the future, in a couple of weeks time maybe, but he is rather fully booked at the moment so he really can't be specific.

Its time for serious change.

 

[chapeau]

No need to be condescending to bananaman, I am sure his comments are legitimate. As already advised, best thing to do is get three quotes, the probability is that at least one of them will be as bananaman described. Also, as advised, get somebody from personel recommendation. Take it from me, you won't find many householders who can do that, finding an electrician from personal recommendation is not easy.

Things are improving since the slowdown though, electricians are at least now returning phone calls. Prices haven't dropped much though and that needs to happen too.

alanthomaswatson, you are wise to ask questions on here. As it appears you might have quite a large job on your hands which might cost some serious coin you might also want to get some basic education in electrics so you can have some knowledge when dealing with the electricians who come quote. It would be well worth spending a few quid on some books. Search on amazon/google for 2382-10 which is the exam used by electricians to demonstrate basic knowledge of the wiring regulations. From there you will be able to link to all sorts of books that will give a basic idea of what is needed to be done. Then when these guys come in you will be able to get a hint of any BS, wont make you an electrician, but then neither are some of the people who are registered to do Part P work. Then of course ask on here too.

 

[scarypants]

sounds like you,ve had a bad time bananaman, not read your original post so excuse me for being ignorant or covering old ground but have you contacted the electricians scheme provider regarding your issues?

 

[bananaman]

alanthomaswatson
Apologies for hijacking your thread, but I felt you should be made aware of some of the issues associated with getting electrical work done. Chapeau is right: enhance your own knowledge by researching the subject. Then you will be in a position to better determine whether the advice and quotes you get are fair and honest.

Looked at from my (unqualified) point of view, the work you are describing sounds extensive, with splitting of circuits and creation of new circuits. You will need to have an electrician to do all of this. My general advice is as follows:

Take your time in getting quotes/estimates. Take months if you need to, and if there's no immediate rush.
Ask questions. If you don't understand the answer - ask again. If you still don't understand, then it's their problem, not yours. Seriously consider rejecting an electrician who cannot explain his/her work in clear language.
Ensure that you clearly explain what you want and say the same thing to every electrician you talk to. Write down your own specification of work if you feel like it.
Compare like with like when comparing quotes. Compare them line by line if necessary and thereby account for all quoted costs.
Check out material costs yourself - this information is easily available online.
Beware of quotes that include work that is not strictly required in order to meet your requirements safely and meet regulations. Or at least, understand the difference between what is needed, desirable, or just plain unnecessary.
Don't deal with people that are hard to contact, don't return calls, or don't answer your queries/questions promptly.
As you are going for a new consumer unit, ask how the electrician is going to handle the interruption between the meter and the CU. In particular, ask experts on this forum how this should be properly handled by a qualified electrician.
Hope this helps

 

[scarypants]

alanthomaswatson,
if you are looking to gain some knowledged regarding the installation and the guidelines laid down by BS7671.
I'd consider purchasing The Electricians Guide to the 17th edition of IEE by John Whitfield, covers 17th and part p, will also be worth visiting tlc-direct.co.uk website some technical advice there, this will aslo link you to this publication

 

[bananaman]

scarypants
Thanks for taking the time to read. No, I haven't contacted anybody yet. I'm still in data gathering mode, as the work was only carried out a few days ago. I may contact the scheme provider, but I want to have one last serious discussion with the electrician first.

Actually, I am seriously considering going down the route of a building regs notification and simply doing the remedial work myself. After all of this, it is starting to look like the easier option. I'm just unsure at the moment about the LABC requirements for inspection and test of work.

 

[scarypants]

LABC requirements for inspection and test of work,
What normally happens is, you notify them of intended work, they inspect at first fix and at second fix where either by them or a third party employed by BCs test procedures be carried out, then a certificate of compliance the to building regs will be issued providing it does comply!
They do ask for 28 days notice but in extreme condition they will wave that a fee is payable on application. approx 130 pound for work valued at up to 2 grand.