consumer units

[davetoms]

Hi, i am having my consumer unit replaced in the house, and a new consumer unit in the garage for lights and sockets.

I have had a couple of electricians come out and look at the job, but they both say conflicting things about how the job needs to be done, so i would like some advice about which one of them is correct.

The first bone of contention is the house consumer unit. Currently it is located in the cupboard under the stairs. One of the electricians says for it to be updated to a new board it has to be moved, as under the stairs isn't allowed anymore. While the other electrician says as it is a replacement/upgrade it can be stay under the stairs, because it would be a big job and expensive to move it elsewhere.

Which is correct? Ideally it would be able to stay where it is.

The second bone of contention is the new consumer unit going in the garage. The first electrician says the new consumer unit can't be located to close to the wall, i think he said it had to be at least 350mm away from the corner of the wall (which seems a bit odd to me).
The second electrician says the new consumer unit can go where ever i want with the only limitations being height restrictions, essentially it can be fitted right in the corner nearly butted up against the wall which is where the supply cable enters the garage.

Which is correct?

Thanks

 

[Adam_151]

Hi, i am having my consumer unit replaced in the house, and a new consumer unit in the garage for lights and sockets.

The first bone of contention is the house consumer unit. Currently it is located in the cupboard under the stairs. One of the electricians says for it to be updated to a new board it has to be moved, as under the stairs isn't allowed anymore. While the other electrician says as it is a replacement/upgrade it can be stay under the stairs, because it would be a big job and expensive to move it elsewhere.

While it isn't the 'done thing' to site the incomming supply and consumer unit under the stairs in new builds these days... there must be tens of thousands of homes in the UK with them there. If one was trying to remove electrical kit from under the stairs to mitigate the risk of a fire blocking means of escape then one would have to have the supply authority move the supply. the first legs of all the circuits would also have to re-wired (otherise you'd end up with a large adaptable box under the stairs). Its not practiable or required. Ideally an admendment 3 complaint unit should be fitted (though not a requirement until 1st of Jan) these may/or may not be slightly more fire resistant!

The second bone of contention is the new consumer unit going in the garage. The first electrician says the new consumer unit can't be located to close to the wall, i think he said it had to be at least 350mm away from the corner of the wall (which seems a bit odd to me).
The second electrician says the new consumer unit can go where ever i want with the only limitations being height restrictions, essentially it can be fitted right in the corner nearly butted up against the wall which is where the supply cable enters the garage.

Thanks

As long as its accessible for installation and maintenance, and is not subject to where it might be bashed or dripped on etc, there isn't too much of an issue wherever its put. In an ideal world, you'd want a metre ² standing room in front of it if possible. Only needs to be far enough out from the corner that it does not hinder cover removal

 

[JohnW2]

The first bone of contention is the house consumer unit. Currently it is located in the cupboard under the stairs. One of the electricians says for it to be updated to a new board it has to be moved, as under the stairs isn't allowed anymore.

Nonsense.

While the other electrician says as it is a replacement/upgrade it can be stay under the stairs, because it would be a big job and expensive to move it elsewhere.

See above, even if it were not a "replacement/upgrade" it would still be allowed in the present location.

The second bone of contention is the new consumer unit going in the garage. The first electrician says the new consumer unit can't be located to close to the wall, i think he said it had to be at least 350mm away from the corner of the wall (which seems a bit odd to me).

Nonsense.

The second electrician says the new consumer unit can go where ever i want with the only limitations being height restrictions, essentially it can be fitted right in the corner nearly butted up against the wall which is where the supply cable enters the garage.

A bit better, although I don't think there is even an explicit 'height restriction' for existing properties.

Did either of the 'electricians' discuss the possibility that you might not actually need a CU in the garage? Did either of them tell you about the changes in regulations about CUs which come into force on 1st January?

I think you would probably be best advised to find a third, 'real', electrician, since neither of those 'electricians' you mention seem to know what they are talking about!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Iggifer]

It's the same Electrician that has an issue with both board locations?

I'd call him up and ask him to quote which regulation he is referring to. Part M of The Building Regulations does state

1.18 To assist people who have reduced reach, services and controls should comply with all of the following.

a. Switches and sockets, including door bells, entry phones, light switches, power sockets, TV aerials and telephone jacks, serving habitable rooms throughout the dwelling have their centre line 450-1200mm above floor level, as shown in Diagram 1.5.

b. Consumer units are mounted so that the switches are 1350-1450mm above floor level

But prior to that, they state

Application

0.2 The recommendations of this volume of this approved document apply to new dwellings, and dwellings undergoing material alteration, only. They do not apply to the extension of a dwelling.

Changing a consumer unit is not a material alteration. He is talking out of his bottom[/quote][/quote]

 

[sparkwright]

The second electrician is more right than the first one.

I suppose one issue with height in a garage is that if low it could get damaged easily with tools and driving into it and that sort of thing...

 

[PBC_1966]

Changing a consumer unit is not a material alteration.

Besides which:

PART M ACCESS TO AND USE OF BUILDINGS

{.....}

The requirements of this Part do not apply to:

(a) an extension of or material alteration of a dwelling

 

[Iggifer]

The second electrician is more right than the first one.

I suppose one issue with height in a garage is that if low it could get damaged easily with tools and driving into it and that sort of thing...

Yea I'd want it nice and high up in a garage. Not as much of an issue if the board's metal, but in the corner I don't think it's as much of an issue

 

[bernardgreen]

There used to be a guide about the height of electrical equipment in garages that refered to the need to have electrical equipment high enough to not be a risk of igniting petrol fumes or other heavier than air gases that might accumulate in a garge when doors were closed.

 

[davetoms]

Thanks for the quick responses. Its good news we don't need the consumer unit moved, it did seem a bit extreme. The garage consumer unit will be quite high up the wall, approximately 3/4's of the way, i would guess about 1.5 metres.

Yes, it was the same electrician who wasn't happy about the location of both consumer units.

We did discuss if a new consumer unit was required, but as the garage is detached from the house they suggested a new consumer unit would be best, a smaller purpose built one.

We did discuss the changes in the law in january, where all the boxes have to be metal? But it was cheaper on materials to have a plastic consumer unit if we have the work done in the next couple of weeks.



After having a look on google this evening, i have got another question

If i am having a new consumer unit, do i need to have new smoke/fire alarms fitted?

 

[Iggifer]

Nope. That's not to say they're not a good idea!

The only work you MUST have for a consumer unit change (and that's only if it's non-existent/considerably not up to scratch) is main earth and gas and water bonding.

If you don't have earths on your lighting circuits, some electricians may be hesitant to change the CU, but AIUI, changing all the lights and switches to Class II (plastic, essentially) and a sticker informing people of the fact of no lighting earths on the consumer unit, makes it somewhat compliant.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, it was the same electrician who wasn't happy about the location of both consumer units.

He's not an electrician.

He might think he is, and he might go around telling people that he is, and he might fool them into paying him to act like one.

But he isn't.

 

[winston1]

We did discuss if a new consumer unit was required, but as the garage is detached from the house they suggested a new consumer unit would be best, a smaller purpose built one.

We did discuss the changes in the law in january, where all the boxes have to be metal? But it was cheaper on materials to have a plastic consumer unit if we have the work done in the next couple of weeks.

You don't need a CU in a garage because it is detached. Run a feed from a 20A way on the house CU direct to garage sockets and garage lights via a switch fused connection unit. Some say if you trip the MCB you lose lights and maybe have moving machinery. In that case fit battery backed emergency lights as a garage CU will never protect against a power cut.

With the new amendments next month it would be absolute madness to fit a plastic CU now just to save a few quid. At some time in the future (when you sell) some bright spark will tell you it does not comply and want to beat the price down.

 

[RF Lighting]

What if a 20A supply isn't enough?

 

[JohnW2]

What if a 20A supply isn't enough?

I suppose his answer to that will be that one would then run a 32A radial from the house!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PBC_1966]

There used to be a guide about the height of electrical equipment in garages that refered to the need to have electrical equipment high enough to not be a risk of igniting petrol fumes or other heavier than air gases that might accumulate in a garge when doors were closed.

For what it's worth for comparison, the NEC here has specific rules for commercial garages pertaining to any equipment mounted less than 18 inches from the floor for that very reason (classing the area as a hazardous location). For a domestic garage where it's intended that only occasional vehicle repairs are carried out, it relaxes the restriction where the floor is at or above grade level and with one or more doors opening directly at grade level, but for any floor below grade level (e.g. an inspection pit) the hazardous-location rules still apply.

On a practical note, fitting either regular socket outlets or switchgear low down on the wall is liable to result in restricted access as storage boxes, spare lumber, garden tools etc. get piled in front of them.