contactless technology

[Steve]

What do you think to this? The technology whereby you hold your credit/deibt card near to the chip and pin reader and your card is debited without the need for any signature or pin entry (or any authorisation whatsoever).

Chip and pin was a huge step forward. In my opinion this is a huge step backwards. There is no need for card holder authorisation! The tech can only be used under £15, but make 10 transactions of £15, thats £150. Now if someone picked up your card after you lost it, there is NOTHING to stop them walking into 10 shops (with c-less tech) and spending just under £15 in each. The card companies are relying on you reporting it stolen as soon as possible, which could be several hours.

And the way I read it, the transactions arent even authorised by the bank, it is entirely "front end" authorisation by the EPOS unit - the EPOS system doesnt dial out - the speed of the sale doesnt allow the time for stand-alone card machines to dial out - it does it afterwards, perhaps polling transactions at the end of the day. So even if the bank knew the card was stolen, they couldnt decline the transactions. I'm just not sure. . .

Anyone got one? I know Barclaycard are pionneering it (Advert with geeky office dude on water slide).


And the oldies have only just got their heads around the chip and pin units - this is going to confuse the living **** out of them.

 

[daneski88]

I was concerned when using my card to pay for the M6 toll road - I put my card in and it took the money without asking for my pin.

Can't help but wonder if the idea of a biometric ID card would help resolve this (among other non thread specific issues )

 

[Steve]

Just been reading about it - apparently if you make several contactless transactions in a row, it asks for your pin. Defeats the point though, surely?

Biometrics would be good. Wave the card as with contactless tech, and then use the fingerprint for verification. But again, you can picture the grannies ****ing it up already. Errrrrm which finger do I use? What? I dont put it in the slot? Why do I still need the card? (As someone who works in retail, I can confirm now, these would all be questions that would come from old people sooner or later. . . )

 

[daneski88]

Maybe we should all have a tracker chip placed in us. Can see a whole load of benefits of knowing who's who, where, etc etc.

On the other hand, maybe not

 

[Johnmelad502]

Just been reading about it - apparently if you make several contactless transactions in a row, it asks for your pin. Defeats the point though, surely?

Biometrics would be good. Wave the card as with contactless tech, and then use the fingerprint for verification. But again, you can picture the grannies **** it up already. Errrrrm which finger do I use? What? I dont put it in the slot? Why do I still need the card? (As someone who works in retail, I can confirm now, these would all be questions that would come from old people sooner or later. . . )

Listen mate, us older generation are not completely clueless you know.

What are Biometrics?

 

[conny]

Speak for yourself!

Whats 'Chip & Pin'?
Is it that new menu in the chippy?

 

[daneski88]

Speak for yourself!

Whats 'Chip & Pin'?
Is it that new menu in the chippy?

Think it's something to do with a damaged hip bone and subsequent surgery

 

[yaleguy3]

As someone who once had a card cloned and over £3000 taken from my account I see these things as a total liability.
However I can confirm that chip and pin are far from secure anyway.

Just keep well away from petrol stations where you are served by asian staff.

The police , the petrol company , the banks have no interest in getting involved to solve your problem.

 

[daneski88]

Just keep well away from petrol stations where you are served by asian staff.

Bit of a problem with that round my neck of the woods

Sorry to hear about your own experiences - was it ever resolved?

 

[yaleguy3]

Just keep well away from petrol stations where you are served by asian staff.

Bit of a problem with that round my neck of the woods

Sorry to hear about your own experiences - was it ever resolved?

I did get all the money back but the debits from my account carried on meaning I had to check my statements every month and argue which bits I hadn't spent.

It was resolved in the end though -

Not by the police who said it was between me and my bank.
(Strange I saw it as fraud or theft but hey ho grannies dropping litter are easier to nick I guess.)

Not by the banks who just gave me the duty of checking my statements every month and letting them know which transactions were fraudulent so they could reimburse my account.

Not by the SHELL petrol station either who said the station was a franchise and nothing to do with them and not by the petrol station manager.

It was resolved by me visiting the petrol station and telling the guy behind the counter that if one more penny came out of my account I would come down mob handed and smash the (swear word) out of whoever was sat behind the counter and the petrol station as well.

Surprise surprise not another penny came out of my account.

I'm not proud but absolutely noone was prepared to take any action.

 

[daneski88]

Don't blame you.

I am gobsmacked by the credit card company - we had a similar thing happen to us with an ASDA credit card (think it was MBNA who actually owned the card, but not too sure - you know how these things work). They blocked our card due to a suspicious payment, and closed the account immediately. They sent us a copy of our last two statements and asked us to identify any unrecognised transactions. They then opened a new account, with a different number and issued replacement cards. Finally they transferred the balance (minus any fraudulent withdrawals) onto this account. Faultless throughout!

I've also had another card phone me up to check whether an itunes song was actually bought online by me - since they view these a potentially suspicious (fraudsters try out an account before hitting it heavily).

Your story is frightening - I've possibly been lulled into a false sense of security regarding the effectiveness of card-issuers handling of potential fraudsters.

 

[Mickymoody]

ATM's currently operate at least a 64 bit selection process, just from the mag stripe on the card, even before going to the chip and pin..

The ATM 'jiggles' the card to prevent fraud, before clamping the card for chip and pin verification.

The chip and pin has 256 bit selection and verification. The process is then translated to a coil pickup, like iRDIdent, which means you have a scanner built into your trolly, and it tells you the price of anything you buy. Just a basic induction coil. So when you put anything in your trolley, the shop knows before you pay, how much you have before check out, so a double check there. Hence self checkouts. The wave card is even more advanced, the worry is it know where you shop and when, and makes a profile of when and where you shop, and targets specific products at you.

 

[Nige F]

ATM's currently operate at least a 64 bit selection process, just from the mag stripe on the card, even before going to the chip and pin..

, the worry is it know where you shop and when, and makes a profile of when and where you shop, and targets specific products at you.

Bit like Nectar card

 

[AndrewSchofield]

Don't blame you.

I am gobsmacked by the credit card company - we had a similar thing happen to us with an ASDA credit card (think it was MBNA who actually owned the card, but not too sure - you know how these things work). They blocked our card due to a suspicious payment, and closed the account immediately. They sent us a copy of our last two statements and asked us to identify any unrecognised transactions. They then opened a new account, with a different number and issued replacement cards. Finally they transferred the balance (minus any fraudulent withdrawals) onto this account. Faultless throughout!

I've also had another card phone me up to check whether an itunes song was actually bought online by me - since they view these a potentially suspicious (fraudsters try out an account before hitting it heavily).

Your story is frightening - I've possibly been lulled into a false sense of security regarding the effectiveness of card-issuers handling of potential fraudsters.

I've had numerous credit cards over the years and of all the ones i've had, cards issued by MBNA have been the best of the lot. If your ASDA card was issued by MBNA then its no surprise to me that they were so pro-active and helpful in sorting your problem. IMO MBNA are a fantastic company; to be admired.

 

[daneski88]

The chip and pin has 256 bit selection and verification. The process is then translated to a coil pickup, like iRDIdent, which means you have a scanner built into your trolly, and it tells you the price of anything you buy. Just a basic induction coil. So when you put anything in your trolley, the shop knows before you pay, how much you have before check out, so a double check there. Hence self checkouts.

Makes you wonder why there's even a need for a checkout to re-count your shopping? Yes it's open to shoplifting, but few systems aren't (how many of us has managed to get stuff from screwfix for example by taking it to the checkout from the shelf which is then taken to the car by a friend while you wait, and the backroom boys kindly bring out a duplicate order )

The wave card is even more advanced, the worry is it know where you shop and when, and makes a profile of when and where you shop, and targets specific products at you.

A bit like "amazon recommends" then.