Counterfeit and Illegal Plugs and Leads

[ban-all-sheds]

I can guarantee that Amazon will do SFA about this problem, and that every time one individual seller is stopped, another will just spring up in it's place, until they are faced with legislation which basically says "Sorry - we just don't f*****g care how difficult it makes life for you - you are providing a means for people to sell these products, and so we will hold you responsible for them being here, and if you can't stop being responsible for dangerous goods being sold we will shut you down."

I know that some people will think "Oh, poor old Amazon - it's just so unrealistic to expect them to do that", but it's the only thing they will listen to.

The alternative is Eric's suggestion.

 

[NewOrder]

I think one thing about this plugs is they are often of such poor quality that they don't work properly anyway and thus they don't get used. However it is the ones which do work which are the real danger.

A came across one without the fuse last week, I told my customer to chuck it. To make matters worse the earth had sleeving too.

It is not just amazon, some of the local cowboy shops are ordering these chargers from places like Amazon and selling them, although I don't complain too much as I often get to fix the damage they cause or at least supply the genuine article.

 

[somervillearron]

hey

i got a 3.5 inch hard drive enclosure,well when i got it i noticed how bad the quaillity was straight away.

well i put the hard drive in and it would just turn off a lot generally it was cheap chinese rubbish.

well there was a kettle plug that plugs into the little power supply for the hard drive,well i put the enclosure in the cupboard as it was usealess but i thought i might need parts for something broken in future so i kept it.

well one day i decided to use kettle plug for the kettle as the kettle wire was in the computer and i did not want to turn the computer off,well i boiled the kettle and honestly it was lucky i was standing next to it because the wire melted and went on fire! the trip switch in the house did not even trip i would imagine it would have as soon as the wires touched but i turned the electric off before it got that far!

this plug was identical to the one at the second page of this thread!

Untitled

• somervillearron
• 8 Oct 2014
• 1

as i said i am really lucky i did not leave the room or my house could have caught fire!

these plugs are extremely dangerous,to be honest i did not pay much attention to it before plugging it into the wall as i have never came across a plug without a fuse before,but after this happened i had a look all around my house and my mothers for wires and found a total of 7 of these plugs!

 

[AndyPRK]

I'm shocked! You still have a kettle that takes one of those plugs?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Well

 

[ericmark]

I have never seen a unfused plug for sale on the high street. I am sure they must from time to time sneak in but in the main it is the internet which allows these items to get into the UK.

If you buy from the internet then one must expect to find more dangerous stuff and so one needs to be able to identify non complaint items.

In the main it is the adaptor which seems to cause the problem.

of the pictures shown only one has a built in fuse.

Personally I do use the adaptors above but all are plugged into an extension lead which means there is a 13A fuse in the circuit.

The majority of IEC connectors are rated at 10A or less See here on Wikipedia and most kettles are over 2.3kW so the use of a C15 or C15A lead to power a 3kW kettle has never complied.

The use of the C13 plug to power a kettle has always been a problem in the main the high temperature version was used with kettles and the C13 was used with computers and I have seen many leads with the C13 plug with conductors too small to provide 13A these have been originally fitted with 3A fuses but when PAT testing moulded leads it is hard to see conductor sizes.

The C13 plug was rated 15A in USA but not in Europe hence I assume why it was used for kettles.

I worked in Kong Kong when it was British and yes you could buy sockets which would take many sizes of plugs but in the main Kong Kong was more heavily regulated than the UK.

In the UK I can buy and sell radio equipment for example without a licence. In Hong Kong I had to produce my licence before I could buy it. However likely mainland china is not as regulated.

However I still think restarting a thread from 2011 with so many posts is not the way to re-high light the problem.

 

[plugwash]

I can guarantee that Amazon will do SFA about this problem, and that every time one individual seller is stopped, another will just spring up in it's place, until they are faced with legislation which basically says "Sorry - we just don't f*****g care how difficult it makes life for you - you are providing a means for people to sell these products, and so we will hold you responsible for them being here, and if you can't stop being responsible for dangerous goods being sold we will shut you down."

I belive the result of such legislation would likely be to make it impractical for marketplace sites to operate in the UK.

However I don't belive that the result would be that marketplace sites in general would go away, I think it's far more likely that the buisness would simply move to marketplace sites in locations beyond the reach of our legal system.

Assuming these are front and back pictures of the same adaptors it looks like the one on the left is almost certainly fused and the middle one probablly is too (the holes look pretty charactersitic of a fuse cover, unfortunately it's white on white and partly obsctured by the pins so it's difficult to be sure)

Nice to see one of my pictures

That particular adaptor (the picture shows front and back of the same adaptor) is fused though IIRC when I opened it up I found a 20mm glass fuse rather than the correct BS646 fuse (presumablly it was replaced at some point). It is not shuttered and does not have pin insulation presumablly due to it's age.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I belive the result of such legislation would likely be to make it impractical for marketplace sites to operate in the UK.

I'm sure that Amazon, eBay, et al would do what was necessary to continue to operate in the UK.

However I don't belive that the result would be that marketplace sites in general would go away, I think it's far more likely that the buisness would simply move to marketplace sites in locations beyond the reach of our legal system.

1) People can already buy from companies based abroad if they wish.

2) Being beyond a legal system is the same as not being within one in the first place.

 

[SimonH2]

I belive the result of such legislation would likely be to make it impractical for marketplace sites to operate in the UK.

It would make no difference anyway - eBay, and IIRC Amazon, both operate from elsewhere in the EU. Basically whatever laws might be passed, these companies could tell UK authorities to go whistle.

Unfortunately the legal system has failed to keep pace with the concepts involved in being "online".
Another example is data protection. Apple, Microsoft and Google basically ignore basic principles of EU data protection - by default they export personal data (which may include sensitive personal data) outside of the EU*. They no doubt claim that the end user consented by clicking OK to the gazzilion pages of licence they are presented with - but I'm pretty certain that doesn't count as giving informed consent.
But our UK data protection people "don't care" - yes I've taken it up with them. They spend considerable time explaining reasons why it's not their problem - but nothing more !
Eg, you buy an OS X upgrade from Apple's "UK" store - but it's delivered online (no physical object) and the transaction is actually with their (IIRC) Belgian subsidiary. But then the data is exported by the users device to servers controlled by US based entities.
I've been too busy to push them on how this changes when there is a physical product bought from a real presence on UK soil - as is the case with (say) buying an Android mobile where it is exceedingly difficult to avoid giving Google more or less unfettered access to your data.

* In the specific case I complained about, Safari defaults to doing "key by key" searches with Google. Ie, on every keypress in the address/search bar, the entire URL is send to Google whether you have any intention of searching or not. Thus even if using private internal sites, the URLs are sent to Google - which can give them a good idea of sites you visit even if there is no tracking they can use. Given how some systems put a lot of information in the URLs, IMO it's a serious issue.

 

[JohnW2]

It would make no difference anyway - eBay, and IIRC Amazon, both operate from elsewhere in the EU. Basically whatever laws might be passed, these companies could tell UK authorities to go whistle. Unfortunately the legal system has failed to keep pace with the concepts involved in being "online".

I'm not sure that "online" necessarily makes all that much difference, other than in terms of the scale of the problem. Dodgy imports, bought through adverts in the likes of 'Exchange and Mart' were around long before the Internet.

Much as BAS would like to think otherwise, it is never going to be realistic/ practical to expect 'middle-men' like eBay and Amazon (or even eBay) to 'vet' all the products that get sold with their assistance.

AFAIAA, there are already perfectly adequate laws in place which prohibit the import of unsatisfactory electrical goods into the UK (and probably also into the EU). As far as I can see, if the State had adequate resources to properly police (in terms of existing legislation) what crosses UK borders, a UK customer could not receive a dodgy import, no matter how they had ordered it.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

As far as I can see, if the State had adequate resources to properly police (in terms of existing legislation) what crosses UK borders, a UK customer could not receive a dodgy import, no matter how they had ordered it.

Exactly. They do catch larger shipments - as publicised by the occasional news story about "<some large value> of counterfeit goods seized" which makes the news.

I'm sure we all recall the large consignment of fake "BGB"s that were caught.
But if the seller had sold those individually, it's highly unlikely that many (if any) would have been caught by customs people randomly opening packages and spotting that it was a fake.

So it is with these - as you say, there just isn't the manpower available to open all packages and have someone with enough knowledge look to see if it's "OK".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Much as BAS would like to think otherwise, it is never going to be realistic/ practical to expect 'middle-men' like eBay and Amazon (or even eBay) to 'vet' all the products that get sold with their assistance.

Realistic?

No, partly because of hand-wringers like you.

Trust me - if the penalties for not doing so were so severe that the companies had to choose between not operating in the EU at all, or finding a way to clean up their act, they would find a way.

As far as I can see, if the State had adequate resources to properly police (in terms of existing legislation) what crosses UK borders, a UK customer could not receive a dodgy import, no matter how they had ordered it.

Now who is being unrealistic.

 

[SimonH2]

I'm not sure that "online" necessarily makes all that much difference, other than in terms of the scale of the problem. Dodgy imports, bought through adverts in the likes of 'Exchange and Mart' were around long before the Internet.

True, but it makes it sooooo much easier. In particular, E&M was a UK business and would have been caught up by the laws BAS would like to see. In practical terms it wouldn't have worked for them to base themselves abroad and still put on the persona of being UK based - just having a UK office accept cheques for adverts would probably have got them in the dragnet.

But online it's trivial to be "a .uk" while having no legal exposure to the UK at all. A '.uk' web address, head office address in Luxembourg in the small print if you find the right page, and online card payments. The only bit of the chain with any UK connection would be the user - and that's the case with eBay (and PayPal) if you read the small print.
As it happens, a friend has just sold an item and it looks like the buyer is trying to scam him. Sold some surplus chrome taps (unused, perfect condition - I saw them just before they were posted as he needed a measurement to answer a query) - but now the buyer is complaining that they are scratched in a way that can only be from abuse (perhaps it's his old damaged taps he's showing !). eBay will almost certainly side with the buyer, so unless my mate can persuade the buyer to accept a partial refund he'll end up out of pocket and with someone else's damaged taps back.
In practical terms it's an impossible situation. The companies are foreign, so he can't take them to court to challenge the "fairness" of the buyer protection clauses (under UTCCR). Taking the company to court in their own country isn't a practical proposition either - even if the country they are based in has the same protections.

 

[JohnW2]

So it is with these - as you say, there just isn't the manpower available to open all packages and have someone with enough knowledge look to see if it's "OK".

Exactly - but, AFAICS, that's the only point/level at which it would be realistic to even attempt to catch a substantial proportion of the items in question.

As you say, it's not just a question of manpower and time, the 'manpower' has to be competent and equipped to determine whether the goods are "OK" (which in many cases might require testing, or at least disassembly). It is, IMO, quite ridiculous to suggest that the likes of eBay and Amazon could be expected/required to have the expertise and facilities to examine and expertly assess every item sold with their assistance - particularly given that, as things currently work, they never even see the items, let alone have an opportunity to examine them!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

True, but it makes it sooooo much easier. In particular, E&M was a UK business and would have been caught up by the laws BAS would like to see.

True - but I cannot believe that any sane legislator would have created that sort of law. Can you really say that you would have felt it reasonable for E&M to have been required by law to gain access to, and have expertly assessed (with testing or whatever), every item that featured in the countless thousands of small adds they published every week?

If it wasn't 'reasonable' for thousands of items per week, it would be even less reasonable with the (I assume) millions now processed on-line.

Kind Regards, John