Couple fire door questions

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Hi

If anyone could help I have a few questions For FD30 two internal doors I need to have changed, and one entrance front door (from a shared hallway). Situation is a one bedroom flat.

I assume you're not meant to have a working handle/latch, just a fixed handle on the interior doors?

Also, the 3 hinges. I gather two at the top. How far apart/near the top of the door should they be, or is it just a general stipulation that there is two at the top?

On the entrance door to the flat is there anything to bear in mind? e.g. type of locks fitted/necessity for self closer (surely you'd have the door closed/latched anyway?

Many thanks.
 
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afaik you can have any ironmongery fitted as long as it complies with the relevant fire regs ie the bs numbers.the front door bear in mind will need a 5 lever mortice lock/latch to comply with your insurance.you may also want a night latch of some sort,letter plate? chain and either a over head d/closure or a decent sized perko.
as for the hinges there are a couple of differing ways but most common is,6 inches from the top.9 inches from the bottom and split the middle.
 
A night latch is not a great idea if you have a closer, you'll need an intumescent letterbox liner too, Really depends on your inspector some will want every single requisite of a fire door, others won't be that fussy.
 
Just a word on Perco's and fire doors. I remember fitting Perco's to kitchen fire doors in a shelter type housing block, for a new housing association. I pointed out the danger, heavy door slamming closed to engage latch (building regs) just to point out the regs state the door must self close and engage against the fire stops. In my opinion Perco's are not the choice in this situation ~ consider a child visiting the home, following an adult through the door but stops short of going through, open door slams on fingers &*!* couldn't happen! believe me it has. Hush plates allow the spring tension in the Perco to be reduced but personally I would opt for a proper door closer with soft latch...pinenot :)
 
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Many thanks for your replies. Very helpful in deciding exactly what to buy and how fussy to be.

Indeed in day to day use the closers are the biggest PITA. As said above you don't want slamming doors but nor do you really want ugly visible closers on the bedroom and livingroom door! I guess certainly the entrance door could have a surface closer but as I said above hardly necessary on the door to the flat-It's always going to be closed. This might be one to just leave off as could be added if picked up on by inspector.

I am doing work to adhere to a building warrant asking for 30 min fire doors. There is mention of smoke seals and intumescent strips as though they ight be two separate items , but I assume I'm probably right it's really just the intumescent strips I need?

Thanks
 
No your not right I'm sorry to say, the door itself normally carry the intumescent strips and the frame the smoke seals, in fact the smoke seals must be fitted to the frame unless impracticable.

Where smoke seals are called for the gap for door edge to frame should be 3mm to top and both stiles and to the floor, floor covering threshold are chosen to comply.

Like the previous post suggested, you get sticklers for the rules and more lenient B.C. officers, be warned...pinenot :)
 
Ah I see, I've just looked and it does look as though a lot of strips on offer are combined ones. I imagine they're ok

Can't believe how complex it can get. I also just saw that you're meant to fit intumescent pads under hinges!!

On that note, any advice on hinge requirements/grades/certification for FD30?
 
You can get perko's that close slowly and snap tight to the frame

Fire doors do not need more than two hinges, and do not need two at the top.

A normal latch and levers can be fitted

Intumescent hinge pads are not a necessity, and I have never seen anywhere which explained exactly what these actually do
 
Again thanks for replies

Woody, I don't like to contradict when asking for advice but from researching this week it appears that fire doors should always have three hinges. I don't know if regulations ask for this or whether it's a general rule because of the weight of a fire door...

This is the sort of thing that I've come across (near bottom of page)
http://blackironmongery.co.uk/acatalog/hinge-specification-guide.html

I must have come across something regarding the top two hinges being near the top of the door but the diagram refers to two at the top being a good idea if a surface mounted closer is fitted at the top of a door.
 
A pair and a half hinges is normal on fire doors but not regulation. Most door manufacturers will state a pair and half otherwise any performance guarantee would be nullified, perhaps that's what your picking up on...pinenot :)
 
A pair and a half hinges is normal on fire doors but not regulation. Most door manufacturers will state a pair and half otherwise any performance guarantee would be nullified, perhaps that's what your picking up on...pinenot :)

...This is new to me- what's a "pair and a half?" Is it two plus a small hinge in middle?
 
...This is new to me- what's a "pair and a half?" Is it two plus a small hinge in middle?
It's THREE hinges, or 1-1/2 pairs.......

Many door manufacturers specify three, top/middle/bottom possibly because the middle hinge reduces the tendency for the door to warp in environments where there is a big humidity differential between the two sides, e.g. hospital doors. I'm told it's also supposed to restrain the door better and keep a better fire seal in the event of a fire (stops the door from bowing?). You used to see two grouped hinges at the top specified for heavy fire doors with heavy-duty closers but I haven't fitted any like that for quite a few years, now.

Like woody I've had architects instructions to install intumescent pads on a number of occasions (always on FD60s, though), but I've never been told why.

As to Perkos I detest them - nasty things to install with a tendency to trap fingers if you're not careful. If you are installing surface-mounted closers and brush-pile (combination) intumescent strips then you will have to go back and adjust the closers 4 to 6 weeks down the line - the seals tend to bed in and the brush pile sits a bit flatter after a while meaning that the door will start to bang if you don't adjust the closer
 
If doors are tested with the intumescent pads installed and that's how the door passed its fire test then that is how it would be specified if going by the book. They just help to block up any gaps left by shoddy joinery and maintain a seal. Overkill? Probably. More important in a high rise or where the risk to life is greater rather than a domestic situation.
 
...This is new to me- what's a "pair and a half?" Is it two plus a small hinge in middle?
It's THREE hinges, or 1-1/2 pairs.......

Many door manufacturers specify three, top/middle/bottom possibly because the middle hinge reduces the tendency for the door to warp in environments where there is a big humidity differential between the two sides, e.g. hospital doors. I'm told it's also supposed to restrain the door better and keep a better fire seal in the event of a fire (stops the door from bowing?). You used to see two grouped hinges at the top specified for heavy fire doors with heavy-duty closers but I haven't fitted any like that for quite a few years, now.

Like woody I've had architects instructions to install intumescent pads on a number of occasions (always on FD60s, though), but I've never been told why.

As to Perkos I detest them - nasty things to install with a tendency to trap fingers if you're not careful. If you are installing surface-mounted closers and brush-pile (combination) intumescent strips then you will have to go back and adjust the closers 4 to 6 weeks down the line - the seals tend to bed in and the brush pile sits a bit flatter after a while meaning that the door will start to bang if you don't adjust the closer

Ah Gotcha

Cheers!
 
Sorry, pair & a half (1 1/2 pr) is the trade speaking in me, it's easy to forget sometimes most in the forum are enthusiastic diy'ers.

Most intumescent strips in quality finished doors these days, are buried between the door core and it's lipped edges, the function of these is to expand in a fire crushing the door into the frame to allow the designated 1/2 or 1 hour designated protection. these ratings apply to the door, frame, stops and the wall their set in. So you see not for filling a sloppy job done by a joiner. There are similar fire ratings for all the door furniture used, door finish etc. 1-1/2 pair of hinges makes the whole doors performance more predictable in a fire emergency. Also the emergency services work on these performance criteria, as laid down in the building regs.

It's worth pointing out that building regs become law in the event of prosecution in a court of law. that's food for thought eh!...pinenot :)
 

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