Current in Neutral wire?? Is that normal?

[GMan51]

Hi all..

I was wiring a washing machine to a non fused wall spur (I assume the fuse is located near the fuse box??)

I connected the brown wire (live) from the washing machine to the brown wire in the spur. I then connected the earth to the earth wire.

BUT... When I touched the neutral wire of the washing machine with an electrical screwdriver, it lit up.. I presume indicating it was live??

I connected the two neutrals together.

The washing machine switches on fine and no fuses blow...

Is it normal that the Neutral wire has a current going through it / it appears to be live??

Thanks.

 

[KingboyD]

Me first!! Bin the electrical gloweeee upeee screwdriver!

I hope you have tested for dead with a multimeter first!

 

[GMan51]

Thanks for your reply.

I did not test it for dead. I thought it was a simple case of connecting the three wires together. Is it potentially serious that I did not test this?

Any other suggestions welcome.

 

[bernardgreen]

If you connect the Live of the machine to the Live in the wall and the Live in the wall is switched ON then the Neutral from the machine will be live as it is connected to Live via the electrical items in the machine. When you connect the Neutral from the machine to the Neutral in the wall then it will have a neutral voltage on it.

[1] NEVER work with the power to the circuit still switched ON. ( there are exceptions but NOT for DIYers.

[2] Connect the EARTH first

[3] Connect the Neutral next

[4] Connect the Live last

[5] Switch the power on

 

[GMan51]

Thank-you for that information.

It seems that I connected it fine then, except I should have connected the live lastly. I now understand why the neutral was live.

The machine switches and appears to work fine.

Thank-you.

 

[endecotp]

I was wiring a washing machine to a non fused wall spur (I assume the fuse is located near the fuse box??)

"Assumed" isn't good enough. You need to know that there is a suitable fuse (or MCB).

I connected the brown wire (live) from the washing machine to the brown wire in the spur. I then connected the earth to the earth wire.

BUT... When I touched the neutral wire of the washing machine with an electrical screwdriver, it lit up.. I presume indicating it was live??

Yes, that is expected. Frankly, if you don't understand why then you probably shouldn't be doing this sort of work; you might kill yourself in the process, or someone else later.

 

[JohnW2]

I was wiring a washing machine to a non fused wall spur ...

What do you mean by a "non fused wall spur" - just a switch? The accessories most commonly used for spurs are (switched or unswitched) "fused connection units". In the absence of the fuse, all you're really left with is a switch.

Was the power to this 'wall spur' switched off somewhere whilst you were doing this work?

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

It seems that I connected it fine then, except I should have connected the live lastly. I now understand why the neutral was live..

No - you should have turned the power off and confirmed it was off before connecting anything.

 

[EddieM]

Man oh man, you are mad! Stop desist immediately, NEVER EVER work on a live circuit! Have you ever had a ring main shock! I hope you never do, if you're lucky it's really unpleasant, if you're unlucky you'll know nothing about it. ALWAYS confirm the circuit is dead, assume nothing. Throw way ur neon screwdriver, buy a cheap multimeter, less than a tenner (I am assuming you feel your life is worth more than that). If you don't feel confident then don't "have a go" it's not worth it.

 

[endecotp]

Throw way ur neon screwdriver, buy a cheap multimeter

That's not the issue here; a meter would also have shown 240V on the neutral.

The fact that he was working on it live is also not the main problem IMHO.

The main problem is that he has wired a (presumably domestic 13A) washing machine directly into a non-fused outlet of some sort, which at best might be a radial with some sort of MCB (16A?) at the fusebox, or might just be a spur from the ring. I'm not an expert at this, but I would assume that a (domestic) washing machine whose plug has presumably been cut from the end of the flex should always be connected to a fused outlet.

And he has only discovered this by chance, because he noticed something else (the voltage on neutral) while he was wiring this up. I wonder, how much other wiring has he done in is home that seems to work but is actually dangerous?

 

[EddieM]

Throw way ur neon screwdriver, buy a cheap multimeter

That's not the issue here; a meter would also have shown 240V on the neutral.

The fact that he was working on it live is also not the main problem IMHO.

The main problem is that he has wired a (presumably domestic 13A) washing machine directly into a non-fused outlet of some sort, which at best might be a radial with some sort of MCB (16A?) at the fusebox, or might just be a spur from the ring. I'm not an expert at this, but I would assume that a (domestic) washing machine whose plug has presumably been cut from the end of the flex should always be connected to a fused outlet.

And he has only discovered this by chance, because he noticed something else (the voltage on neutral) while he was wiring this up. I wonder, how much other wiring has he done in is home that seems to work but is actually dangerous?

You're not being serious are you? Working live presents a clear and potentially fatal present danger, wiring a 13 Amp appliance into a 16 amp radial represents a potentially serious danger but nothing like electrocution.

 

[JohnW2]

You're not being serious are you? Working live presents a clear and potentially fatal present danger

Everyone seems to be 'assuming' - which is why I asked him the question. If he was working live (which is one interpretation of what he wrote), then I obviously agree with you - but I'd prefer to get confirmation first!

... wiring a 13 Amp appliance into a 16 amp radial represents a potentially serious danger but nothing like electrocution.

That's an interesting statement. A 'potentially serious danger' to what? It is almost inevitably the case that the cable will be big enough to be satisfactorily protected by a 16A MCB, so the circuit, per se, would be compliant, and not dangerous in any way. As far as the appliance itself is concerned, the difference between 13A and 16A protection is really neither here nor there. I'm not suggesting that it would be 'good practice', but, in reality, I certainly don't think that running a '13A appliance' directly from a 16A supply represents a particularly significant hazard.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

The fact that he was working on it live is also not the main problem IMHO. ... The main problem is that he has wired a (presumably domestic 13A) washing machine directly into a non-fused outlet of some sort, which at best might be a radial with some sort of MCB (16A?) at the fusebox, or might just be a spur from the ring. I'm not an expert at this, but I would assume that a (domestic) washing machine whose plug has presumably been cut from the end of the flex should always be connected to a fused outlet.

As I've just written to EddieM, IF the OP was working live, then I would agree with Eddie that this would definitel be the 'main problem', totally 'trumping' any issues of circuit design etc.

As I've also written to Eddie M, IF it were a 16A (or even 20A) radial, then I don't think that, in reality, running a WM straight from it would actually represent much of a hazard. However, if it were an unfused spur from a 32A ring, wired in 2.5mm², then some adequate protection for that cable (which could be provided by the 13A fuse in a plug, if there were one) would be required.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EddieM]

Yes I agree I was assuming he was working live, I was also assuming that a 13 amp appliance was being wired into a radial with no regard as to anything else that may be on that circuit. My only point was that it is extremely dangerous and in a domestic situation totally uneccessary to work on a live circuit and that one should never assume its dead.

I have no doubt we all agree that working safely is paramount.

 

[endecotp]

OK, when I wrote "main issue" I guess I didn't mean "most dangerous action". I meant "issue that he needs to resolve now". Clearly he has survived working live (or wasn't) and he has been told not to do it again. But, going forward, he needs to tell us exactly what he has wired this appliance in to - and if that's not appropriate he needs to fix that.

Maybe it actually is fused (e.g. an above-worktop FCU leading to a below-worktop cable outlet). Or maybe it's actually the lighting circuit! We don't know...