Curved stone staircase, runner or paint

[Kaymo]

Hoping for some advice/opinions on the stone staircase in the picture. Coming towards the end of decorating this hallway, and the last thing to do is decide what to do with the stairs. It was previously covered with the same (I suspect thirty year old) wall to wall carpet that was also upstairs and from the unpainted track in the middle, it obviously had a stair runner at some point prior to that. I have already replaced the upstairs carpet with Oak Eng wood flooring and just need to decide what to do with the stair.

The original plan was to get a stair runner, but the quote of £800ish from local carpet store to supply and fit gave me pause, not just due to the cost, but it was just plain roll carpet they were going to use with edges turned under, and I wasn't convinced that it would look that good. Another option is to order an actual stair runner online and either fit myself or get someone in, which is still likely to cost £400ish for the runner plus fitting, so not a budget option but I think would look better.

The other alternative I am considering, is to just fill and tidy the stone a bit and then paint with the same white that is on the outer edges and skirting. Obviously wont be soft under foot like carpet, but both upstairs and downstairs are now solid floors, so it doesn't make much difference to have it soft in the middle, and the only considerations is how it will look and the practicalities of maintaining it. White might be difficult to keep looking clean, and maybe a different colour would be better, but only time would tell on that count, and fairly easy to keep it fresh with an occasional coat of paint.

This is not just about cost, I would rather pay £800 than it look crap. There are plenty of examples of painted wooden stairs online, but painted stone stairs are more typical outside or in communal staircases, so not a lot of examples to go on.

Any thoughts?

 

[Kaymo]

Updating my post above, my wife has decided that she would prefer a carpet runner but wants the type that you often see on straight staircases, with a stripe on either edge. Looking at a few videos online this seems to be quite a tricky thing to fit, due to the changing width of the runner as you go around the bends.

As these runners are generally sold online rather than in carpet shops, I tried to find an independent carpet fitter, but it seems there are not so many of those around here, and I presume most must be carpet shop employees. First one I phoned said they were not interested the moment I told them what it was, another had retired and the last one I could find locally has just gone on holiday!

It strikes me that if this is a tricky job to do, it might be difficult to get someone who would do a good job. Anyone on here done this type of job before? Any advice?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Surely a traditional centred runner with decorstive edges, which leaves part of the treads and visible on either side, is of constant width? I really can't see a carpet manufacturer producing multiple widths of edge decorated runner. Our (timber) stairs both have kite winders at the bottom and have fully fitted carpets. The kite treads had to be cut and stitched by the fitter, but his job eas made a little easier by dint of him being able to affix the carpet to the treads and risers using tacks. You can't do that on stone stairs - from observation the carpet appears to need to be stitched in situ and thenheld in place with stair rods which are drilled, plugged and screwedcto the treads. That may be why I've not seen many fitted stair carpets on stone stairs over the years (most I can recall are bare stone)(

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks JobAndKnock.

I think you have misunderstood me. I am not saying that the runner, as supplied, is not of constant width. I'll try to explain this better. When you fit on a straight stair it can be fitted as one single piece. When you fit to a curved stair, you must cut the runner at the first riser after the curve begins, and this cut will be diagonal, and therefore longer than the width of the runner. When you attach the next piece it would also need to be cut diagonally to match the width of the previous piece and so that the edge is straight as it goes up the next riser.

I don't think stair rods are any use in this case, because you need to cut at the turns and this seems to be done at the bottom of the riser where the stair rod goes. This stair was previously carpeted wall to wall, and they used carpet grippers at the bottom of the risers, with the cut ends tucked into these. The carpet grippers were held into the stone with screws and rawlplugs, although the carpet shop guy that came out recently seemed to suggest that they would glue the carpet grippers to the stone (I was a bit sceptical about this).

Suffice to say it seems like it might be a tricky thing to get right, especially if there is any pattern on the carpet. There are a few videos on youtube showing how to do this, and there seem to be one or two slightly different methods, but all of them seem to require a fair bit of messing around and either making templates or making multiple cuts until the angles are right, which along with all the drilling for carpet grippers, is probably why the first guy I phoned wasn't interested!

 

[Kaymo]

Just asking this question again, in the hope that there is someone out there that has some advice or experience of this, as I am having real trouble getting anyone to do this job.

So far, the only thing we have been offered, is a carpet runner made from plain carpet, where each piece is cut from a roll of carpet, then either folded under, or taken away for edge binding before fitting. One of the people I spoke to stated that the type of stair runner with edging, that is normally seen on straight stairs, cannot be fitted to a curved stair, which doesn't seem to be true given that there are loads of examples of this in pics on the internet.

Below screen grabs give the general idea of what we are looking for.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I would probably lay odds that both those examples have every carpet step cut and stitched (or at the very least folded under and hidden under the riser carpeting - but that only seems to work on thinner carpets) and that they are either tacked/stapled to the wooden staircase beneath, or held in place with timber carpet gripper strips. You can't do that on a stone staircase with the first technique, and I don't recall ever seeing a carpet fitter with an SDS drill to fix gripper strips to masonry (they get a chippy to do that on commercial size jobs) and glue won't hack it long term

I might not live in a grand house, but 4 of my homes over the years had kite winder stairs, and they were all cut and stitch carpeted at the kite winders bar the one with gripper rods (when we moved in)

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks for the reply JobandKnock.

I don't disagree. Every step, with the exception of the few straight steps at the top and bottom, will need to be cut to size. I also accept that will be reflected in the price for the job.

The previous wall to wall carpet that was on these stairs, did have carpet grippers and they were drilled and held in with rawlplugs. The very first carpet fitter I spoke to wasn't interested, partly because he didn't want to have to drill holes and cut individual steps, but he clearly knew how to do it and had done it before. Other than carpet grippers, the only other way would be to bond the carpet direct to the steps.

The carpet shop guy that came out said that they would bond the carpet grippers, rather than screw them down. I am in agreement with you that I don't think this will hold in the long term.

My house is not all that grand either, the original house was a Georgian 3 bedroom, but as with many properties of the time, it has this type of stone staircase. I suspect this was originally bare stone and would have looked good when new, but time has taken its toll (along with the holes from the previous carpet grippers) and so it either needs carpeted or painted. Painting will not completely hide the damage to the stone, which is part of why my wife wants the runner.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

You could always do some stone repairs, sand off the steps then paint them. Although I'm a chippy it isn't unknown for chippies to go as far as shuttering badly worn steps which then get levelled with a stone dust/resin mix which matches the original stone. This is also used to fill any holes. The result isn't pretty at this stage, but it can be ground and sanded to look quite good, at which point it could be painted.

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks. I am with you on the filling and painting of the steps. Unfortunately my wife is not.

I already filled some of the rawl plug holes at the edges, where it would be exposed at the edges of the carpet runner, and painted over, and to me it looks fine and I reckon I could do the same to the rest of the step with reasonable results, without going to the lengths of refacing. The stone is probably 200 years old, its well worn, but to me you get away with that to an extent in an old house, where the wooden trim etc is also worn. Character, as they say.

However, my wife is not convinced and with all the work that has gone into everything else, sees this runner as the finishing touch. We do have an option to get a plain carpet runner, from the shop that quoted for this, so that is a fallback option.

I was hoping their might be some experienced carpet fitters on here who could comment.

 

[Kaymo]

Back again on this. Put my focus on finishing off the wood flooring in the upstairs rooms to avoid having to think about the stairs. My wife in the meantime has been phoning around for carpet fitters, but almost none of them are keen when you say its a carpet on stairs, and then when you tell them its a curved stone stairs and you would ideally like a carpet runner, their mobile reception starts to get a bit crackly! Don't blame them. I wouldn't want to do it either!

Having nearly finished all of the rooms up stairs, and with quite a bit of the eng wood flooring left, I am now considering whether I could fit this to the stairs instead. The photos below give an idea of how it might look, but the general idea was to copy the way I have done the top landing, using the flush fit T and G nosing, just fitting the wood to the treads, and painting the risers white - as you would expect its the treads that have the most damage.

There would be a fair bit of work in cutting, especially some diagonals and curves on the steps in the turn, but I think that's doable.

There is also the problem of the edge open edge (left side when facing). The nosing is solid ok, so a clean cut and sanding would be fine, but the cut edge of the eng wood would need to be dealt with. A few ideas here. Simplest is to just sand and paint the edge white, as a transition to the stone. Another is to try and fill the edge with oak filler (not convinced about that one but could try it on a scrap bit). Another is to edge with a veneer, or 18mm oak strip.

The main part that's outside of my previous experience, is securing the wood to the stone. I can see that there are a few different brands like Bostik Laybond, Bona, Sikabond etc, that should do this, but having never used before I don't know if these products would give a strong enough bond for a stair (from a safety point of view). I'm less concerned about the boards, which will have a lot of surface area for the bond, but the nosing might be a weak point. When I fitted the nosing on the top landing there is both adhesive and hidden screws holding it down to wood subfloor, but that's not really an option to stone.

Any thoughts or advice, much appreciated.

 

[opps]

It sounds like more work than a stitched carpet runner...

If you want to go with the engineered flooring, perhaps use full widths and stain/seal the edges before gluing them down (potentially more waste though). I don't see a problem if you use the correct adhesive (after speaking to the manufacturer's tech team).

 

[Kaymo]

It sounds like more work than a stitched carpet runner...

At first I would have thought the same, but a standard stitched carpet runner doesn't work on a curved staircase, because when it goes around the bends it needs to be wider in places. Stone substrate also complicates the securing of the runner a little. This is why I contacted carpet fitters, but no-one really wants to do it. I could give it a go myself, but it seems like the runner needs to be cut to fit on the stair, then the carpet taken away to be bonded at the edges, and I don't have the equipment for that. In any case, the bosses (wife) preference is the wood flooring idea, if its workable.

My preference it just paint the bl%%dy thing, but I am trying to be accommodating...

I don't see a problem if you use the correct adhesive (after speaking to the manufacturer's tech team).

Good point, I could give them a ring. I have a sneaking feeling the glue manufacturer will refer me to the floor manufacturer, and vice versa.

 

[opps]

In the images that you posted, the runners are the same width as they go down the staircase (other than the windings).

I can understand that the carpet fitters don't want to glue down the gripper rods and come back the following day, but can't you ask them to spec them and glue them yourself?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Thoughts? Yes, just how flat are the current treads? i.e. are they worn? lf they are anything other than dead flat you'll need to address that before attempting instalation. This may require shuttering or overcladding with plywood, mechanically fixed. If the going is uneven plywoood overcladding combined with correcting the discrepancies in the going is really the only way to sort things out

Secondly, I don't think that glueing alone will be particularly safe on a staircase, in part because timber products tend to move which can lead to them detaching from a stone substrate over time. You are possibly better off considering a composite solution where the middles of the treads are glued, but the back and front edges, in the areas where mechanical fastenings such as screws can hidden beneath the risers or the nosings

Solid wood treads is another possibility because they can be drilled.and counterbored, fixed down (masonry drill, plugs and screws), pelleted and trimmed flush

 

[Odds]

Back again on this. Put my focus on finishing off the wood flooring in the upstairs rooms to avoid having to think about the stairs. My wife in the meantime has been phoning around for carpet fitters, but almost none of them are keen when you say its a carpet on stairs, and then when you tell them its a curved stone stairs and you would ideally like a carpet runner, their mobile reception starts to get a bit crackly! Don't blame them. I wouldn't want to do it either!

Having nearly finished all of the rooms up stairs, and with quite a bit of the eng wood flooring left, I am now considering whether I could fit this to the stairs instead. The photos below give an idea of how it might look, but the general idea was to copy the way I have done the top landing, using the flush fit T and G nosing, just fitting the wood to the treads, and painting the risers white - as you would expect its the treads that have the most damage.

There would be a fair bit of work in cutting, especially some diagonals and curves on the steps in the turn, but I think that's doable.

There is also the problem of the edge open edge (left side when facing). The nosing is solid ok, so a clean cut and sanding would be fine, but the cut edge of the eng wood would need to be dealt with. A few ideas here. Simplest is to just sand and paint the edge white, as a transition to the stone. Another is to try and fill the edge with oak filler (not convinced about that one but could try it on a scrap bit). Another is to edge with a veneer, or 18mm oak strip.

The main part that's outside of my previous experience, is securing the wood to the stone. I can see that there are a few different brands like Bostik Laybond, Bona, Sikabond etc, that should do this, but having never used before I don't know if these products would give a strong enough bond for a stair (from a safety point of view). I'm less concerned about the boards, which will have a lot of surface area for the bond, but the nosing might be a weak point. When I fitted the nosing on the top landing there is both adhesive and hidden screws holding it down to wood subfloor, but that's not really an option to stone.

Any thoughts or advice, much appreciated.

View attachment 312642


View attachment 312643View attachment 312645

Reading the thread i saw you mention doing the upstairs floor and wondered if using wood on the stairs could be an option and now you've thought of it and shown how it could look, i'd say you're on to a winner with that idea...but it isn't my opinion that really counts, is it?
What does your wife say?