damp/wet marks

[angusbudden]

Hi,

Recently bought/moved into a old terrace house and 4 months in i'd started to notice wet marks dotted around a wall.

These wet marks start near window corner and move along the wall (never rising from the floor) this is also the same near the front door and cover of the room.

I've attached a picture of the corner and where i've sanded back the wet marks around the window.

I've tried sanding back, and using ronseal damp proof paint which covered the marks great, but the wet marks appear again below/above where i painted.

The bricks outside where the damp marks are look well weathered, and a few flaking (apologies.. i'm a diy amateur)

Any advice??

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• angusbudden
• 22 Sep 2014
• 1

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• angusbudden
• 22 Sep 2014
• 1

 

[angusbudden]

attached images. (edited)

 

[kbdiy]

Pictures of the other sides of the walls will be more helpful. Not too close and fairly wide angles so we can see what else is going on.

 

[angusbudden]

Pictures of the other sides of the walls will be more helpful. Not too close and fairly wide angles so we can see what else is going on.

Ahhh now that would make sense (told you i was an amateur)

When i get home from work i'll take a few more pics

Thanks!

 

[angusbudden]

Hi Guys,

I've attached some more pictures, I've highlighted the area's of where the wet marks are coming through. Hopefully you can give me some advice.

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• angusbudden
• 26 Sep 2014
• 1

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• angusbudden
• 26 Sep 2014
• 1

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• angusbudden
• 26 Sep 2014
• 1

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• angusbudden
• 26 Sep 2014
• 1

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• angusbudden
• 26 Sep 2014
• 1

 

[ree]

Is the interior floor solid or suspended?
Have you examined and probed the skirting boards?

Look inside the external meter box, and the internal elec. outlet, for damp signs.

The elevation has been re-pointed in the past - re-pointing requires a rake out of 20mm to 22mm deep and a soft mix of mortar. Check your pointing.

The stone cill appears to be central to any damp penetration - does it have a clear throating, and is the PVC frame well silicone sealed?

There's the possibilty that you have stand alone condensation, although penetrating damp will often attract/create condensation issues.

 

[angusbudden]

Is the interior floor solid or suspended?
Have you examined and probed the skirting boards?

Look inside the external meter box, and the internal elec. outlet, for damp signs.

The elevation has been re-pointed in the past - re-pointing requires a rake out of 20mm to 22mm deep and a soft mix of mortar. Check your pointing.

The stone cill appears to be central to any damp penetration - does it have a clear throating, and is the PVC frame well silicone sealed?

There's the possibilty that you have stand alone condensation, although penetrating damp will often attract/create condensation issues.

Hi, thanks for your reply!

We don't seem to have any condensation issues. The window seem well sealed, no damp/water coming through that i can see at all.

Your right, one section of the wall where it's wet is around the pipe from the gas meter outside, i wouldn't have a clue how to fix that without worrying that it's gas.

I think i need to get someone in, just don't want a cowboy who does lots of unnecessary work and doesn't resolve the problem.

All floor boards/skirting boards are solid, not damp at all.

 

[kbdiy]

Going by the brick bond you may have a cavity wall, albeit a narrow (finger) cavity. Slightly unusual for an older property. I wonder if the problems around the window and door are caused by damp penetrating the outer brick cavity closer (header) and 'wicking' through to the inner leaf. There may be similar problems around the meter box where there may be local bridging of the cavity.

Modern construction would include cavity closers that prevent such transmission of damp but they did not exist when these properties were built, hence I think this may be the problem, at least in part.

If that is the cause then I would try a clear water seal solution on the brickwork but only in the affected areas. The brickwork does look in poor condition in places so damp penetration could be the issue.

There has obviously been a chemical damp course inserted at some point but I don't think that has any bearing on your problem.

 

[ree]

The flagged yard has raised the external ground level, and to compensate a fillet of sand and cement has been installed, and a ((as above) DPC injected at a useless height. No air bricks are visible - except perhaps glimpses of virtually covered over air bricks just peeping above the flags. Suspended floors need venting.

Perhaps a pic of the wet gas pipe?

Has your party wall neighbour complained of damp?

Have you chipped a bit of pointing off and measured the depth of the rake-out?

Maybe inspect the interior party wall near to the ceiling?

How long has the abutting fence post been in position?

Was the trellis recently covered with foliage?

 

[angusbudden]

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies...

The fencing has been up a few years buy the looks of it, and the trellis the same. We only just moved in 4 months ago.

The bricks i agree are looking poor, in particularly around the area's where the wet marks show on the interior walls.

I haven't tried chipping away at any pointing as of yet, would you recommend re pointing then using a sealant? or could i just try the sealant first??

Cheers again for everyone's help so far!

 

[dishman]

We don't seem to have any condensation issues. The window seem well sealed, no damp/water coming through that i can see at all.

A broken window seal would not be the cause of condensation.


In all these posts about damp it is best to problems solve starting with the most basic of questions. So...

You have recently moved into this property.

How recently did you notice the damp? You say within 4 months in your post. I assume that to mean that the damp was not there before hand and has appeared since you have lived there, correct? Therefore, please answer the following.

1) Are the cavity walls (look like cavity walls) insulated?

2)Is the house fully upvc?

3) What (other than windows) forms of (if any) ventilation do you have in the house? Especially bathrooms and kitchen and how do these operate?

4)Do you have a tumble dryer and do you use it? Or do you use the radiators or airers to dry clothes inside?

5) Have you used the heating at all?

6)How many people live in the house?

Please answer these questions. It may all be unrelated, but it is best to assume nothing and start with the simplist things.

Many Thanks

 

[angusbudden]

Here's my answers in BOLD

Thanks again!

We've moved in 4 months ago, and after month 1 we noticed the marks coming through, although the walls had been painted freshly by previous owner and when we viewed the property they have units covering the affected area's which makes me think it's been in issue for awhile.

1) Are the cavity walls (look like cavity walls) insulated? YES

2)Is the house fully upvc? YES

3) What (other than windows) forms of (if any) ventilation do you have in the house? Especially bathrooms and kitchen and how do these operate?All the windows have ventilation flaps on. I can't see any ventilation bricks on the outside of the house. (sorry for the non technical names)

4)Do you have a tumble dryer and do you use it? Or do you use the radiators or airers to dry clothes inside? NO, we use the wash line or hang on a clothes horse

5) Have you used the heating at all? YES, but only a few times

6)How many people live in the house? 2

 

[dishman]

Thnaks for the reply.

To clarify a few further points.

Do you have any extractor fans in the bathroom and/or kitchen?

You say you use a clothes horse to dry clothes, is that also just for outside?
How will you dry clothes as winter approaches?

Do you have any furniture coving those areas at the moment?

 

[angusbudden]

Thnaks for the reply.

To clarify a few further points.

Do you have any extractor fans in the bathroom and/or kitchen?

You say you use a clothes horse to dry clothes, is that also just for outside?
How will you dry clothes as winter approaches?

Do you have any furniture coving those areas at the moment?

Yeah the bathroom has a fan and so does the kitchen, worth mentioning as the kitchen back door is a farm door and splits in half we have the top half open pretty much every time we cook so ventilation isn't a problem.

As the winter creeps in no doubt we'll use the radiators to dry clothes which i know will increase moister in the air and can result in damp, but it shouldn't be a problem now. To be honest washing most of the time is done at the parents so i don't thinks thats the issue.

No furniture covers any damp marks, that was only the case from the previous owners.

 

[dishman]

In my view, it could still be a condensation issue.

People produce far more water vapour than one would think. Houses used to be draughty enough to cope with this. An average family can put 15 litres of water vapour into the air, so two people in smallish house could easily put 5-10 litres into the air.

As we have insulated our houses people do not realise that ventilation becomes even more important.

Condensation is caused by warm moist air (warm air can hold more water vapour than cold air) cooling. As the warm air cools the water vapour turns to water and condensation is formed.

In the days of single glazed windows, the coldest surface in the house was the windows. They acted like dehumidifiers. Attracting all the water vapour to form on them.

However as we have begun upgrading to double glazed windows, they are no longer the coldest surface in the house. To make matters worse, they are more airtight, meaning the water vapour is trapped in the house for longer.

So, the water vapour now condenses on the next coldest surface in the house, which is usually the walls!

If you have cavity wall insulation this can also exacerbate the issue as the condensation can be concentrated on to small focused cold spots on the walls where the insulation may have missed. This is usually around doors, windows, corners of rooms and where pipes maybe coming through the wall from outside!

So you get spots of damp forming on the walls because these are the coldest spots in the house, and much more prone to attracting the vapour.


So....my advice to you (before you start spending money on fixes that may not work at all) is to look at living habits to see if you can do anything to reduce the problem free of charge.

Look at ways to increase ventilation in areas where a lot of water vapour is created

How does the extractor fan in the bathroom operate? Does it always come on? Is it controlled by the light? Does it stay on after you finish your bath/shower? Is it powerful enough? Do you open windows as well?

do you have the windows on the night lock (open a crack but locked).

I should also warn you that as we get nearer winter, you are setting yourself up for a lot of damp problems if you start drying on radiators.

Consider a launderette, or get a tumble dryer.