Data and telephone through single cat 5e cable

[don001]

Hi,
I want to run wired cat 5 internet and extend the telephone line to the out room in the garden.
I understand only 2pairs (4 cables out of the are used in a network cable when sending the internet connection.
Someone told me i can also run my telephone connection through one of the available pairs.
Will this have any kind of adverse effect with the network speed etc?
Thanks

 

[josh451]

Hi,
I want to run wired cat 5 internet and extend the telephone line to the out room in the garden.
I understand only 2pairs (4 cables out of the are used in a network cable when sending the internet connection.
Someone told me i can also run my telephone connection through one of the available pairs.
Will this have any kind of adverse effect with the network speed etc?
Thanks

I don't think it would have any affect on speed, but in terms of doing a good job I'd be tempted to run two separate cables. Even if you only use one. It'll help fault finding later down the line.

I'm guessing the cables are going to be protected in some way?

 

[plugwash]

100 megabit ethernet (specifically 100BASE-TX) does only require two pairs. However gigabit ethernet (specifically 1000BASE-T) requires all four pairs.

I belive some but not all gigabit gear has the ability to step down to a nonstandard mode that is faster than 100 megabit but slower than gigabit when it detects only two pairs are available but it wouldn't surprise me if some gigabit gear fails to negotiate a connection at all with pairs missing.

 

[EightyTwo]

You can get a splitter to do this - I've seen them used by some companies in old buildings with limited structured cabling (and before VOIP became the norm). You put one in each end (patch panel and wall socket) and they have an RJ45 and BT pone socket in them. They look a bit like a pigtailed broadband filter... I don't know what they're called, sorry , but I think they were made by Belkin.

Not much help there, sorry.

 

[plugwash]

Alternatively you can seperate the pairs from the fixed cabling and punch them down on different sockets.

But either way it's something i'd only consider doing in an existing installation where I needed to add something unanticipated. In a new installation seperate cables are the way to go both because of support for gigabit and so you have some redundancy if a pair fails.

 

[doingitmeself]

I've done this in my house both to run network and telephone on the same cable and to run two network sockets over the same cable without needing a switch at the remote end. Phone calls are fine and I've never noticed any speed issues.

You can either break out the spare pairs (brown/white, brown... I forgot the others) or use one of these http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/42941-ca...e-economiser-cat-5-economiser-pro-signal.html

 

[don001]

Hi Thanks for your replies.

Josh451: Where the cable will be exposed it will be through conduit. The rest is all internal run.

So are there many devices out there that use the gigabit Ethernet? When do you think they will become common in domestic use?

Thanks again!!

 

[Lectrician]

Just run two lengths. It's not expensive. It's hard to justify doing it in a bodgy way on a fresh install. These days, when someone asks for a network point, they invariably mean a dual one with two cables.

 

[SimonH2]

So are there many devices out there that use the gigabit Ethernet? When do you think they will become common in domestic use?

Yes, lots - even in domestic.
Most PCs have gigabit these days. Many broadband routers have gigabit. Many NAS boxes have them. And gigabit switches are now down to the sort of prices that 100Mbit switches cost only a few years ago - I'm nearly all gigabit here.

Quite frankly, it's a complete bodge to not pull two cables in now - and it's barely any extra effort and very little cost to do so. You'll thank yourself at some point if you do.

 

[sajeel]

Hi

rj45 cat5 uses only wires pins 1,2,3 and 6 for all speeds if you are referring to gigabit then most infrastructures dont have a backbone to support full gigabit it is for servers and fibreoptic networks.

Therefore you can have from one wire, 2 x rj45 network points or 1 x rj45 network point + 2 phone lines, or 4 phone lines

Why would you run a extra wire when you can split off cat5, your speed will not be affected and before anyone asks i am more than qualified to answer this have years of experince as a sparky and network engineer.

 

[plugwash]

if you are referring to gigabit then most infrastructures dont have a backbone to support full gigabit it is for servers and fibreoptic networks.

Most computers have supported gigabit ethernet for a while now (sufficiently long that I have computers with gigiabit ports that are basically retired for being "old and slow") and while not quite as dirt cheap as 100 megabit switches they aren't exactly expensive

Now of course most people don't yet have external connections over 100Mbps yet but such connections are coming for those willing to pay for them. When putting in any new infrastructure I would be looking forward not backward. Also some people do use their home networks for things other than accessing the internet.

 

[SimonH2]

… before anyone asks i am more than qualified to answer this have years of experince as a sparky and network engineer.

Sorry, but your statements demonstrate that you are NOT qualified to offer advice. Clearly you are one of those sparkies that is the bane of my life - the ones that THINK they know how to do networking because "it's just more wires".
One of the worst things I get to do in the day job is "work with the sparky" installing a network. Sometimes they provide the containment (compartmentalised dado trunking for example) and I provide the cable and terminate it, sometimes they pull all the cable and I terminate it, sometimes they've terminated one end and I do the other. I did get to know one sparky well who I was happy with (but then he closed up shop and went abroad), but in general I "dislike" working with sparkies like this as far too often they demonstrate attitudes like yours and aren't prepared to learn.
On one job I came close to telling the customer that I was leaving site unless the sparkies stopped and ripped out all the data cable they'd pulled in (and I'd then install cable properly) such was the way they were treating it (they didn't treat the power cabling any better, and it was sub-freezing temperature).

rj45 cat5 uses only wires pins 1,2,3 and 6 for all speeds if you are referring to gigabit then most infrastructures dont have a backbone to support full gigabit it is for servers and fibreoptic networks.

Three statements, 0/3 for correctness. Like I say, stick to the electrics unless you are prepared to learn even some basics about networking. Bet you can't come up with a sub-gigabit network that uses all four pairs ? Or just two pairs but not 1&2,3&6 ?

The reason structured cabling conects all 4 pairs regardless of what it's being used for now is precisely to avoid the problems that came up frequently in the past when each type of networking used it's own cabling standard. If you connect all 4 pairs (and for good measure, TEST the installation properly) then the user doesn't have to guess now what he might want next year, or the year after that, or ...

Why would you run a extra wire when you can split off cat5, your speed will not be affected

Because speed WILL be affected, and the cost of pulling in and terminating two cables instead of one is next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[sajeel]

if you are referring to gigabit then most infrastructures dont have a backbone to support full gigabit it is for servers and fibreoptic networks.

Most computers have supported gigabit ethernet for a while now (sufficiently long that I have computers with gigiabit ports that are basically retired for being "old and slow") and while not quite as dirt cheap as 100 megabit switches they aren't exactly expensive

Now of course most people don't yet have external connections over 100Mbps yet but such connections are coming for those willing to pay for them. When putting in any new infrastructure I would be looking forward not backward. Also some people do use their home networks for things other than accessing the internet.

Yes i agree most computers have gigabit port but do you not understand that if your network is not gigbait backbone; meaning all your devices, cabling and incoming service, there is no point and all is just marketing bs.

 

[sajeel]

… before anyone asks i am more than qualified to answer this have years of experince as a sparky and network engineer.

Sorry, but your statements demonstrate that you are NOT qualified to offer advice. Clearly you are one of those sparkies that is the bane of my life - the ones that THINK they know how to do networking because "it's just more wires".
One of the worst things I get to do in the day job is "work with the sparky" installing a network. Sometimes they provide the containment (compartmentalised dado trunking for example) and I provide the cable and terminate it, sometimes they pull all the cable and I terminate it, sometimes they've terminated one end and I do the other. I did get to know one sparky well who I was happy with (but then he closed up shop and went abroad), but in general I "dislike" working with sparkies like this as far too often they demonstrate attitudes like yours and aren't prepared to learn.
On one job I came close to telling the customer that I was leaving site unless the sparkies stopped and ripped out all the data cable they'd pulled in (and I'd then install cable properly) such was the way they were treating it (they didn't treat the power cabling any better, and it was sub-freezing temperature).

rj45 cat5 uses only wires pins 1,2,3 and 6 for all speeds if you are referring to gigabit then most infrastructures dont have a backbone to support full gigabit it is for servers and fibreoptic networks.

Three statements, 0/3 for correctness. Like I say, stick to the electrics unless you are prepared to learn even some basics about networking. Bet you can't come up with a sub-gigabit network that uses all four pairs ? Or just two pairs but not 1&2,3&6 ?

The reason structured cabling conects all 4 pairs regardless of what it's being used for now is precisely to avoid the problems that came up frequently in the past when each type of networking used it's own cabling standard. If you connect all 4 pairs (and for good measure, TEST the installation properly) then the user doesn't have to guess now what he might want next year, or the year after that, or ...

Why would you run a extra wire when you can split off cat5, your speed will not be affected

Because speed WILL be affected, and the cost of pulling in and terminating two cables instead of one is next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I will ask one question before i begin are you a qualified network engineer or a qualififed electrician, i am sure i know more about networking than you can DREAM of.

 

[SimonH2]

Sorry, but there is a saying that when in a hole, you should stop digging. Your two previous posts reinforce what I've said - you can claim what you like, what you demonstrate is your lack of knowledge in the area.

If your cabling isn't gigabit capable then the only logical reason for that is you followed the false advice of someone on the internet (like yourself) who told you not to bother installing it properly. If you installed Cat5e properly, then it'll handle gigabit. You can pick up a gigabit switch now for peanuts - about what 100Mbit switches cost a few years ago. So as soon as two of your devices have gigabit then you gain.

The internet connection is largely irrelevant - though it's not actually all that far off now - FTTC goes up to 80M, FTTP goes up to (IIRC) 300M at a price. Lots of internal devices gain from gigabit vs running that at 100M - having a NAS (or other form of server) is quite common now and that really gains, as do my backups which take an age over 100M. Even the humble WiFi access point can gain now - some have (claimed) wireless rates well in excess of 100M.
I can tell you that copying files across the work network (100M) seems reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy ssssllllooooowwwwww compared with copying stuff at home where most of my kit is Gbit.

And you CAN mix and match - having a 100M switch won't reduce your gigabit switch throughput, it'll only reduce the throughput of traffic that actually goes through a 100M link/switch. SO there's no problem whatsoever having a 100M switch supporting oder kit (one of my printers is only 10M !)


The simple answer to the OPs post is : don't bother planning on fudging things, just install to the standard. If you do that then anything will "just work". You won't be coming back at some point in the future moaning that you didn't pull two cables when it would have been easy, and can anyone see a way around your problem
Ignore idiots you tell you to not bother with the specs. They are shortsighted and will just lead you into making bad choices.