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Decking complaint (threads merged)

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by Dicky mint, 25 Nov 2019.

  1. tony1851

    tony1851

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    @ John D v2.0 Fully agree - life isn't always down to legalities.
    Our own neighbour has recently built a small raised deck/climbing frame for his kid, and of course it attracts other kids round to play on it.
    We don't like it but are taking a long-term view and keeping schtum to keep on good relations because the kids will eventually grow out of it.
     
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  3. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

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    True that, in fact on reflection you could be optimistic and say: life always isn't down to legalities!
     
  4. mattylad

    mattylad

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    YOu just know, that if you apply for planning - the neighbour will object and you will get it refused.
    So stick to your guns and do not give in.
     
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  5. tony1851

    tony1851

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    The council could invite him to apply for Planning Permission, in order only to bag the fee from him, and the application would of course be refused.
    Best thing for the OP now is to sit back and do nothing.
     
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  6. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

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    I'm not quite sure why this forum is "like"ing or doing thanks on every post after the ones i actually thanked and liked! I'm not actually that generous:censored:
     
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  7. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    Are you pre-empting the season of goodwill? :cautious:
     
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  8. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

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    Apparently so, it just like-d your comment for me!
     
  9. Dicky mint

    Dicky mint

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    Ok latest update
    The planning officer has now had advice saying
    It's a platform and quotes article E
    So it needs planning permission

    Any advise about paragraph /article E? Class E
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2019
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  11. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    Tell the planner its decking, and quote Article E

    And whilst in quoting mode, for bonus points quote the definition of "height" from the General Issues
     
  12. Dicky mint

    Dicky mint

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    It must be this his quoting

    Verandas, balconies and raised platforms are not permitted development under
    Class E.
    A raised platform is defined as any platform that has a height of more than 300
    millimetres. Garden decking will therefore be permitted development under Class E
    subject to it not exceeding this 300mm height limit and subject to the other limits and conditions under this Class.
     
  13. Dicky mint

    Dicky mint

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    Article E or class E
     
  14. Dicky mint

    Dicky mint

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    The enforcement officer has just let me know that he has spoken to the director of planning enforcement in his department and they both have agreed it's a platform as it's higher than 300mm

    I quoted this in a reply letter


    “Height” - references to height (for example, the heights of the eaves on a house
    extension) is the height measured from ground level.

    "Ground level is the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to the building in question (or in this case decking). Where the ground level is not uniform (e.g. if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building
    (or in this case decking)."


    Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/decking-complaint.534101/#ixzz66aB7dwHG
     
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  15. tony1851

    tony1851

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    On the Planning Jungle website, there are three appeal cases concerning the height of decking where LPAs had taken enforcement action. In two cases, the inspector determined that the height of the decking should be measured only at the highest point of natural ground level.
    In the other case, the inspector determined that ground level can be measured anywhere along the structure.

    However, this last case is very much an outlier because there are loads of appeal cases concerning the meaning of "height" generally (not just with decking) and the vast majority determine that height is measured from the point of contact of the structure with the highest natural ground level.

    The planner states: A raised platform is defined as any platform that has a height of more than 300mm. and from that proceeds
    to state that it is not PD because it contravenes E1(h). But we are back to the issue of height and whether your project is defined as
    'decking', 'platform' or 'raised platform' is irrelevant.

    You will see from most opinion on this thread that your LPA has a basic mis-understanding of the legal meaning of 'height' and if they issued enforcement proceedings on this issue, they could well come unstuck. As an aside, OP seems to be allowing himself to be drawn into correspondence with the planners; this you should not do as you are wasting your time. Once they have decided that black is actually white, no amount of correspondence will make them decide otherwise. You should ignore any further correspondence unless they issue a formal Enforcement Notice.
     
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  16. Dicky mint

    Dicky mint

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    Latest reply from po

    Mr †***""""""

    I advised you that I would advise you of the relevant section of the General Permitted Development Order 2015 that relates to raised decking as follows:


    Class E – buildings etc incidental to the enjoyment of a dwellinghouse Permitted development E. The provision within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse of—



    (a) any building or enclosure, swimming or other pool required for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwellinghouse as such, or the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of such a building or enclosure; or

    (b) a container used for domestic heating purposes for the storage of oil or liquid petroleum gas.



    Development not permitted E.1 Development is not permitted by Class E if—



    1. permission to use the dwellinghouse as a dwellinghouse has been granted only by virtue of Class M, N, P or Q of Part 3 of this Schedule (changes of use);
    2. the total area of ground covered by buildings, enclosures and containers within the curtilage (other than the original dwellinghouse) would exceed 50% of the total area of the curtilage (excluding the ground area of the original dwellinghouse);
    3. any part of the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation of the original dwellinghouse; (d) the building would have more than a single storey;
    4. the height of the building, enclosure or container would exceed—
    5. (i) 4 metres in the case of a building with a dual-pitched roof, (ii) 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within 2 metres of the boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse, or (iii) 3 metres in any other case; (f) the height of the eaves of the building would exceed 2.5 metres;
    6. the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated within the curtilage of a listed building;
    7. it would include the construction or provision of a verandah, balcony or raised platform;
    8. it relates to a dwelling or a microwave antenna; or
    9. (j) the capacity of the container would exceed 3,500 litres.


    E.2 In the case of any land within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse which is within—

    (a) an area of outstanding natural beauty;

    (b) the Broads;

    (c) a National Park; or

    (d) a World Heritage Site, development is not permitted by Class E if the total area of ground covered by buildings, enclosures, pools and containers situated more than 20 metres from any wall of the dwellinghouse would exceed 10 square metres.



    E.3 In the case of any land within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse which is article 2(3) land, development is not permitted by Class E if any part of the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated on land between a wall forming a side elevation of the dwellinghouse and the boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse. Interpretation of Class E E.4 For the purposes of Class E, “purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwellinghouse as such” includes the keeping of poultry, bees, pet animals, birds or other livestock for the domestic needs or personal enjoyment of the occupants of the dwellinghouse.



    I have highlighted the relevant section for you. Please ensure your decking is removed or an application received within the given time frame. I must advise you that in the event the decking is not remove the Council will proceed with the issuing of an enforcement notice against the property, however in the event the property is tenanted, the landlord may resort to their own mechanism to ensure the breach is remove from the land.
     
    Last edited: 29 Nov 2019
  17. LukeB123

    LukeB123

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    Dicky Mint - As Tony said, there does not seem to be much point keep writing to the Council, they have made a judgement and are sticking by it..... You have already shown them the definition of "height" when measuring the building, and they either seem to be misinterpreting this, ignoring it, or not understanding it.

    Whilst it may be a little daunting to have an enforcement notice served on you / your property, you haven't actually done anything wrong until you don't comply with the enforcement notice.. When they serve the enforcement notice on you, you will have 1 month to appeal the decision. You'll need to put an appeal in to the inspectorate within this timeframe and send a supporting statement in explaining why you think it's permitted. This is all free of charge. The inspector should then side with you, and your decking should remain as permitted.
     
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