Decking posts/handrail - more movement than I'd like

[Bod36]

Hello all,

I've been away for a while, not sure what I was asking about last time I was on here, but it was useful, I remember that much !

I've recently extended the frame and replaced the boards and handrails etc.. on the decking outside my patio doors (raised).

It all went fairly well, but I'm a bit disappointed with the amount of movement if I push against the handrail, and I'm looking for some advice as to how to improve this. The existing frame (that was there when I moved in) has a ledger board attached to the back of the house, and a joist parallel to this, with floor joists sitting on top of these. The handrail that I replaced was a bit wobbly, but I put this downs to one of the posts not being connected to anything underneath the decking ! but I made sure that all my posts (x3) were coach bolted (m12) through a floor joist

but it's pretty naff for rigidity... any ideas anyone

(can post some pics if it will help) - cheers !!

Some pics of the fixing I used below
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9214IswqPyMMTlZdVpuWFltNzA&usp=sharing

 

[ImayKnow]

I seem to recall your last post was about cementing in posts !

It looks like the newel posts would offer more rigidity if they were attached to the sides of supports that the decking is attached to (the supports look like they are 6 x 2s)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Your posts need to be about a foot longer and bolted at the base too. None to clear from your photos what you've done tbh. On your third photo it looks like you've rebated your post and only have one bolt per post. Woefully inadequate, and why rebate it.

 

[rjm2k]

Definatly need more than one bolt per post otherwise it will just act like a lever, spread the bolts as far apart as you can on the small area of material that you have. Are the top joists bolted to the lower ones? if not it may be worth doing so at least for the ones which newals are connected to. There will be some movement though so as long as it looks ok and would prevent someone falling if it really came to it I wouldn't worry too much. The far left newal doesn't appear to be attached to anything?

 

[Bod36]

Your posts need to be about a foot longer and bolted at the base too. None to clear from your photos what you've done tbh. On your third photo it looks like you've rebated your post and only have one bolt per post. Woefully inadequate, and why rebate it.

>>> ah bugger, I had a funny feeling about only having one bolt through it, I had rebated it because that was how it had been done before (not a good place to start in hindsight!)


I seem to recall your last post was about cementing in posts ! icon_wink.gif

It looks like the newel posts would offer more rigidity if they were attached to the sides of supports that the decking is attached to (the supports look like they are 6 x 2s)

>>> I thought I had bolted the newals to the floor joists ? Do you mean the bits that the floor joists are sitting on ? (so longer newels required again)

Definatly need more than one bolt per post otherwise it will just act like a lever, spread the bolts as far apart as you can on the small area of material that you have. Are the top joists bolted to the lower ones? if not it may be worth doing so at least for the ones which newals are connected to. There will be some movement though so as long as it looks ok and would prevent someone falling if it really came to it I wouldn't worry too much. The far left newal doesn't appear to be attached to anything?

>>> Two bolts again.. doh !

The top joists aren't bolted to the lower ones, is there fixings I can get that will let me do this (fix two joists at right angles, one on top of the other) ?

The leftmost newel is actually fixed in the same way as the others, the pic doesn't show that very well.


Sooooo......my thoughts were to:-

1. try and get another carriage bolt through the bottom of each newel, through the joist
2. try and get a fixing that will more securely fasten the floor joist to the joist underneath it
3. cement in a post in front of each newel and bolt together (not sure if that would look crap, probably, but maybe quite strong?)
4. light a match (only kidding)

what do you reckon ?

Thanks for the advice btw, I'm a definite amateur when it comes to this stuff (obviously !), but will be reasonably happy with it if I can shore up the handrails a bit

cheers
Roddy

 

[rjm2k]

Now that I can see more pics, it looks like the newals are also screwed to the joists, is that correct? if so I wouldn't think there's a need for more bolts. Also one of the pics I can see a nail just about pinning one of the top joists to the one under it, if they are all like this then they are connected. If all of the above is true I wouldn't expect there's much more you can do, so how much movement are we talking? can you post a video demonstrating it? you maybe just expecting a bit too much strength out of it

if the newals also have screws, did you drill the holes too large allowing movement?

 

[Bod36]

Thanks for your reply again mate

Yeh the floor joists are connected to the joist underneath just with a couple of nails tapped in. The pilot holes for the extra screws were the right size so that shouldn't have made any difference.

I'll see if I can get a video of the play in it, up at the weekend, maybe I'm being overly critical of myself !

What do you think of cementing a 4x4 post in front of the newels and bolting through ?