Designing en suites with only cold water at the basin?

[ATTQ]

Being not a wimp I never wait for hot water at the basin and the family have got used to it over the last few years in this new to us Victorian house but would most people see it as essential to the point I should consider the next buyer and make the effort to have it? Don't get me wrong its a nice to have if it came straight out of the tap as soon as I turned it on and didn't waste a load of energy to be at the ready all the time but that doesn't seem like an available option.

No plans to sell and can't imagine it would be a deal breaker for anyone if they even noticed it wasn't available but just wondering what opinions are and if I'm overlooking an easy solution.

It was a guest house with 5 en suite rooms, one so small there was hardly space for a bed after they put the en suit in. But then no family bathroom. All electric showers. To have water for quite a few guests maybe wanting it all at once they had a centrally located, upstairs immersion and central heating coil heated tank feeding the en suites taps. So we get warm water after a minute when the central heating is on but never used the electric element.

I'm taking two en suites out entirely, enlarging one to be a family bathroom and leaving 2 rooms with en suites. The family bathroom is just above the downstairs combi-boiler so i'll have it feed a shower and hot tap there. The 2 remaining en suits are at the opposite end of the house from the boiler and I figure it will take so long to get hot water there, normal people will have finished washing their hands before it does. The heating tank is pretty redundant then just feeding 2 taps and we could use the space for a much needed wardrobe.

Am i missing an idea for doing those taps another way? I can only think of those instantaneous electric water heaters which I dont want. Do you think most won't care much about it same as us?

 

[Deluks]

It would wind me up. If I was buying I'd knock money off to cover the cost of adding a hot tap to each basin.

But everyone's different. If you're not selling then who cares?

Maybe you could leave a pipe capped off to enable a retrofitted tap from the main HW system. Or wire in and blank off a leccy spur for the other option.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Small undersink water heater, inside a Vanity Unit cupboard?

 

[ATTQ]

Small undersink water heater, inside a Vanity Unit cupboard?

Thanks well thats an option i didnt know existed, I was just thinking about the ugly over sink ones, could be the answer, TBH my wifes eyes lit up at the idea and you know what they say about happy wife...

I've just asked Chatgpt to do some calculations of cost and time and waste to get 2 liters of hot water using the combi-boiler which is approx 18m pipe run from furthest tap.

• Amount of water wasted per use: 2.61 liters
• Time delay before hot water arrives: ~13.1 seconds
• Cost per use: ~0.65 pence

Then i asked it to work out how long before the electric one pays for itself and it said "infinity". Even though it heats the water I use plus whatever is left in the pipe when I turn it off, the cost of electric is way more than the cost of gas and wasted water. 6 uses a day each one (at least) one is £30 a year all in for combi including wasted water costs VS £120 a year for electric heating plus having to buy 2 of them.

Time delay probably from the boiler around 20 seconds factoring time to run through plate heat exchanger as well is a deal breaker IMO, most times all it will achieve is a bit of underfloor heating from a section of the pipe. Wasted water from running it till its warm was 11,400 liters a year which seems totally unacceptable to me.

But the electric when thinking about it like this is yet another £10 a month subscription just for another unnecessary luxury. Maybe back to modifying what I have but a much smaller coil only storage tank inside the cupboard I'll make, which is about 4 meters from each tap. Trouble is the central heating is on and off through the day so if its not a very big tank it will be very random if its warm or not.

 

[endecotp]

I have a vague recollection that having hot water in the bathroom is required by some definition of “suitable for human occupation”, e.g. it might be more difficult to get a mortgage on a property that lacks it. Or maybe a dreamed that?

I sympathise with the long wait for combi hot water to reach the taps thing. I use it to ensure that I’m brushing my teeth properly. If the water’s still cold I haven’t brushed enough.

 

[ATTQ]

I have a vague recollection that having hot water in the bathroom is required by some definition of “suitable for human occupation”, e.g. it might be more difficult to get a mortgage on a property that lacks it. Or maybe a dreamed that?

oh ffs. you're right but good catch as I'm getting stuck in tomorrow. chatgpt again, great for these type of things:

In England, the Building Regulations 2010, specifically Approved Document G, mandate that hot water must be supplied to certain fixtures within a dwelling. According to Requirement G1, there must be a suitable installation for the provision of heated wholesome water to:

• Any washbasin or bidet provided in or adjacent to a room containing a sanitary convenience.
• Any washbasin, bidet, fixed bath, or shower in a bathroom.

This means that in a bathroom, all washbasins, baths, and showers are required to have a supply of hot water. Failure to provide hot water to these fixtures would be a contravention of the building regulations.

For tenants, the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, particularly Section 11, obligates landlords to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling for the supply of water, gas, electricity, and for sanitation, including basins, sinks, baths, and sanitary conveniences. This includes ensuring that hot water systems are functioning correctly. Therefore, if a rented property lacks hot water in the bathroom, the landlord is legally required to address and rectify this issue promptly.

My first thought was its an en suite so surely thats just a bonus either way but no we have legislated ourselves into an unsustainable standard of living we can no longer afford and increasingly so. Cheapest way is to waste 11,000 liters of water a year so thats great for the planet. Call me a hippy but i'd prefer one of those shower egg timers for the teeth brushing

 

[Koolpc]

Do you have the flush working in the toilets or do you use a bucket?

 

[Deluks]

Hot water is an unnecessary luxury, says the man with two en-suites!

Your friends might start referring to you as Arthur "two en-suites" Jackson.

 

[ATTQ]

Hot water is an unnecessary luxury, says the man with two en-suites!

Your friends might start referring to you as Arthur "two en-suites" Jackson.

 

[ATTQ]

Do you have the flush working in the toilets or do you use a bucket?

I've noticed with flushes its quality not quantity, there must be more gone into the design than is obvious. I regularly empty a dehumidifier into the loo and if i've just used it tried to use that water to save a flush, just doesnt work even though must be a similar amount of water

 

[ATTQ]

There is no way the current hot water storage is minimum 60 degrees when the heating is on a low setting. https://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/hot-and-cold.htm We're probably lucky to be alive breaking all these HSE regs

 

[ATTQ]

Its going to have to be the undersink ones then, happy wife and happy HSE

 

[trojanhawrs]

Could you relocate your tank nearer the 2 remaining en suites?

 

[ATTQ]

Could you relocate your tank nearer the 2 remaining en suites?

no it already happens to be about equidistant to both but they aren't adjoining rooms. Anything that stores hot is going to take space for insulation and lose heat anyway. I think the compromise is going to be non-storage instantaneous heaters and having mixer taps which have a separate handle for hot and cold. Those 2 in 1 jobs which are left in the middle position mean we call for hot even when not really wanting it. Not thinking of selling but might as well be ready and able to as we never know what life will fling at us do we

 

[robinbanks]

Not sure I would start spending money now on something I've no plans to sell in future, to satisfy as yet unknown wants of a persnickety buyer?!