Different voltage

[vgarcia]

Chaps,

electrical question:
Can I fit an appliance that works at 230V with a, say, 1.5 Kw heating element in UK where we have 240V?

 

[dingbat]

Good question. Officially we have a 230V supply in the UK, but that's only on paper. The short answer is, yes. A heating appliance will have no problem with the 4.3% extra voltage and will actually draw proportionally less current for the same output.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Good question. Officially we have a 230V supply in the UK, but that's only on paper. The short answer is, yes. A heating appliance will have no problem with the 4.3% extra voltage and will actually draw proportionally less current for the same output.

It would, if it had some magic way of sticking to its 230V output.

But it hasn't, and if you connect a "1.5kW at 230V" heater to a 240V supply it will draw 6.8A instead of 6.5, and will become a 1.63kW heater.

But vgarcia still doesn't need to worry - the higher voltage won't cause any problems, except just maybe a slight reduction in the life of the heater. There is no danger involved - the reason that we still have our old nominal 240V supply instead of the European standard nominal 230V one to which we have signed up is that our traditional +/- variability range is lower than the 230V one. A "230V" supply could in fact be as much as 253V, so any appliance designed for sale in Europe must be safe at that level. Lightbulbs wouldn't last long though....

 

[vgarcia]

Well Guys,

You have been very helpful, but I want to do things properly and therefore you have to help me more.

I`d like to install in my bathroom an appliance that is extremely if not impossible to find in UK.

I`d like to install a European (French or Italian) electrical water heater.
The electrical specs are very straightforward:
1.5 Kw
230V mono or single (please forgive my translation)

What do you think?
Please do not answer about the plumbing issue, I know it is another matter.

Many thanks

 

[dingbat]

BAS is quite right; I was thinking upside down. Resistance is the only constant here... sorry for not thinking before posting!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK - first of all, the heater must be in Zone 1 or higher (not difficult, as Zone 0 is actually inside the bath or shower tray), but the switch for it must be in Zone 3 or higher. If you use a pull-cord switch it is OK if the switch is in Zone 3 or outside and the cord hangs down into Zone 2 or 1.

See this for a description of what can go in each zone. this doesn't tell you about appliances in bathroms, but it does have better diagrams.

Secondly, the heater must be suitable for use in a bathroom - IPx4 is the minimum for Zone 2 for example.

An RCD is not essential, but is a Good Idea. Presumably you'll be spurring off a ring main to supply this? If so use an RCD FCU.

Lastly, the earth connection of the heater must be wired into the bathrooms supplementary bonding.

 

[AdamW]

Might be worth having a look at

this

The actual mains voltage is 230V with a tolerance of +10% and -6% thus 240V is still well within tolerances (as ban mentioned).

We all pay for 230V and really get 239V? What a bargain

 

[vgarcia]

Thanks Guys,

all of you are good and this site is excellent to learn and save.

I am going to buy in France an electrical water heater for my bathroom for about 120 euros, compare to an average of 400 pounds in UK.
I will replace the plug and job done.

I will save about 300 pounds.

 

[Big_Spark]

vgarcia, how big is this water heater? Capacity wise?

I am little concerned by your comment about replacing the plug? I hope you are not contemplating putting a socket in your bathroom?

Secondly, if you buy it in France, it may not meet British Standards, this could invalidate your contents insurance if anything goes wrong. You know what insurance companies are like at wriggling out of paying.

If you want hot water in the bathrrom, why not get a plumber(Yuk) to run a new feed on the hot water side?

 

[vgarcia]

You are right in many points FWL_Engineer.

It is a problem I am struggling to solve.
I am aware of the BS7671. That`s fine distance wise in my bathroom.
I have an old copper cylinder in a airing cupboard. It is occupying a quarter of my bathroom. However there is nothing cheap to replace with it in UK.
In UK there are only (as far as my research went) two types of electrical water heater:
Vented and unvented (from Sadia, Santon, etc).
On average of £ 500, against 100 euro for something that I really do not understand it is not possible to find here.

I am open to suggestions chaps

 

[Big_Spark]

The reason such a product will not be available for sale in the UK is legal.
The item in question will not meet the UK's strict safety codes for the sale of such products.

Do you have a loft space above the bathroom? If you do perhaps you could move your current immersion heater up there?

The type of water you are contemplating are not designed to operate in bathrooms, they are designed for commercial applications and thus would suffer moisture ingress due to steam in the enclosed room. This would certainly shorten the life of the unit, but could also be a potential hazard if not installed correctly. If your Consumer unit has a main switch RCD, then you will get nuisence tripping of this device, and after they have tripped about 10 times, most RCD's should be replaced as they will be over sensitive.

The test trip button does not have a damaging effect on the circuits of the RCD as actual fault currents would.

This is something you need to consider carefully. Simply going to France and buying a cheap water heater may seem like a great idea, but in the long run could end up costing you more money.

Cheap may seem cheerful now, but could prove very expensive in the long term.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No socket allowed anywhere in the bathroom - there is no distance where it becomes OK - if your appliance has a plug, then you will have to cut that off and wire it instead to a fused flex outlet.

As for the other points - if it's designed for a French bathroom then it won't suffer in an English one - steam is steam.

Regarding British Standards - not sure that this is now legally sound. I'm no lawyer, but I was under the distinct impression that if an item meets the appropriate EN standard for whatever it is, then it cannot be banned from sale in any member country because it does not meet that country's own domestic standard?

So the above may mean that the insurance company can't object. And don't forget - there is nothing to stop you using a French insurance company...

 

[Big_Spark]

No socket allowed anywhere in the bathroom - there is no distance where it becomes OK - if your appliance has a plug, then you will have to cut that off and wire it instead to a fused flex outlet.

As for the other points - if it's designed for a French bathroom then it won't suffer in an English one - steam is steam.

Regarding British Standards - not sure that this is now legally sound. I'm no lawyer, but I was under the distinct impression that if an item meets the appropriate EN standard for whatever it is, then it cannot be banned from sale in any member country because it does not meet that country's own domestic standard?

So the above may mean that the insurance company can't object. And don't forget - there is nothing to stop you using a French insurance company...

Ban, no-one mentioned putting a socket in the bathroom, had it been so I think one of us would have jumped on it sooner.

The types of heater he is looking at are undersink commercial water heaters, and these are NOT designed for use in bathrooms, if you check out the manufacturers website it states this clearly, as do the installation instruction that come with them. HOWEVER, if you shut it away in a small cupboard so that steam was not an issue there would be no problem..but he has not mentioned how he intends to install the said heater.

Any item for sale in any country must be available for sale in all other member states so long as it complies with all necessary domestic regulations and laws, so it is possible to sell an item of electrical equipemtn on the continent, but not be able to sell the item in the UK. It is not common, but it does occur. The heater he is looking at is likely made by a French company specifically for the French/Continental market where electrical regulations are not as strict as in the UK.

Using a French Insurance company would be unlikely to do the trick, unless they are cleared by the FSA to operate in this country, your insurance would be invalid.

In the long run it will be cheaper for him to have the job done properly, by someone that knows what they are doing, despite it costing more, and have peace of mind.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ban, no-one mentioned putting a socket in the bathroom, had it been so I think one of us would have jumped on it sooner.

Well - vgarcia did say "I will replace the plug and job done" (at which point you raised the concern about sockets), and then "I am aware of the BS7671. That`s fine distance wise in my bathroom".

Just in case he'd misinterpreted the regs and thought that at a certain distance from Zone 0 sockets were allowed, I thought, on the grounds of better-safe-than-sorry, it was worth making it crystal clear, that's all, as some countries do allow sockets in bathrooms.

 

[Big_Spark]

Ban, good point and observation..I had forgotten about the initial comments he made as the conversation had moved on a bit..apologies.