Distance apart for clipping Twin&earth

[markymark2406]

Clipping some Twin & earth to some joists in the loft it's 1.5mm is there a min distance the clips should be ?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Yes there is, in your case with 1.5mm T&E cable the distances are:
*No greater than 250mm when fixing horizontally
*No greater than 400mm when fixing vertically
Link with some info:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.4.1.htm

 

[riveralt]

Clipping some Twin & earth to some joists in the loft it's 1.5mm is there a min distance the clips should be ?

Can I ask why you have chosen to use 1.5mm ² T&E cable for what I assume is a lighting circuit?
The reason I raise this is because it appears to have become the norm on this site from Diyers and in some cases those in the trade to use this size cable for lighting circuits.
While there is nothing wrong with this approach, it does seem to be a case of over engineering and unnecessary expence, given the potential current carrying capacity available (over 4kw) and the rapid development and installation of low wattage lights.

 

[seasickstevie]

The horizontal rule is I imagine is for a vertical surface, but if clipping on 'top' of a beam for example (a 'floor' surface) then the rules surely must be different.

In reality I don't think anyone would clip as 250mm spacing in a loft. Just use your common sense to prevent anyone catching their foot on the cable.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I just use the length of my (small) hammer. About 250cm and you are then sure to get a regular spaced run. Looks nicer.

Method taught at Post Office Telecomms engineering school in Paul Street London EC. Those were the days......

 

[kbdiy]

I just use the length of my (small) hammer. About 250cm and you are then sure to get a regular spaced run. Looks nicer.

Method taught at Post Office Telecomms engineering school in Paul Street London EC. Those were the days......

Good to know I'm not the only one remembering those days! Plus 1.5" from a right-angle corner (using marks on the edge of your exercise book!)

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The horizontal rule is I imagine is for a vertical surface, but if clipping on 'top' of a beam for example (a 'floor' surface) then the rules surely must be different.

In reality I don't think anyone would clip as 250mm spacing in a loft. Just use your common sense to prevent anyone catching their foot on the cable.

I think common sense would be to comply to clipping distances, it not that hard is it?

 

[JohnW2]

I think common sense would be to comply to clipping distances, it not that hard is it?

What regulation is it that specifies the clipping distances you wish to comply with? 522.8.4 and 522.8.5 essentially leave it to the discretion of the person doing the work ("...supported by suitable means at appropriate intervals..." etc.).

Are we perhaps talking about OSG guidance again?

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What regulation is it that specifies the clipping distances you wish to comply with? 522.8.4 and 522.8.5 essentially leave it to the discretion of the person doing the work ("...supported by suitable means at appropriate intervals..." etc.).

Are we perhaps talking about OSG guidance again?

Kind Regards, John

And the appropriate intervals have been calculated and presented within a table in the OSG, use discretion if you wish but without some guidance, it could well become transgression.

 

[OwainDIYer]

I just use the length of my (small) hammer. About 250cm and you are then sure to get a regular spaced run. Looks nicer.

I also use length-of-hammer.

 

[JohnW2]

And the appropriate intervals have been calculated and presented within a table in the OSG, use discretion if you wish but without some guidance, it could well become transgression.

I'm as much a sufferer as everyone else, and I do feel in many ways saddened by the way that virtually all professions and trades have been 'dumbed down', by replacing judgements, discretion and decisions based on training, knowledge and experience by (sometimes almost 'mindless') machine-like application of externally imposed rules and controls. We're almost at a point at which teachers can no longer decide what/how to teach, doctors can no longer decide how to treat, bank managers can no longer decide who can receive loans, and electricians can no longer decide how far apart to put cable clips.

Even with training and expererience, we all need 'guidance', but when we get to the point of regarding guidance as something which must be complied with to the letter, we are essentially denying ourselves our 'professional free will' and creating a situation in which robots or monkeys with the appropriate 'checklists' and guidance documents could do our job, without having any understanding of what they were doing, or why (or even whether what they were doing was sensible) - and without any 'flexibility' or necessarily even 'common sense'.

The spacing of cable clips is, of course, a trivial issue, but the general situation I'm commented on is obviously far more general than that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

.... creating a situation in which robots or monkeys with the appropriate 'checklists' and guidance documents could do our job, without having any understanding of what they were doing, or why ....

Which is related to the scenario I often warn about, where I tell people that what they need to do is to learn and to come to understand what they are doing, and not come here looking for somebody to just give them put-this-wire-in-that-hole instructions for them to blindly follow.

And why this sort of thing p****s me off:

I am trying to install an outdoor light next to my back door. There is already a single switch inside the door for my hall light. Would i be able to replace this switch with a double and just link the live and neutrals from the hall light to the second switch to power the outside light?

If you don't have a live and neutral at the switch and you still want to operate the outside light from that new (double gang) switch then....
You will need to replace your existing 2 core and earth with a three core and earth bringing live, switch live, neutral and earth to the new switch.
Then in gang one put your live into C your switch live into L1 and your earth into the back box. Put your neutral in a terminal block. Run a small piece of insulated cable from your gang one C to gang 2 C terminals.
Then run 2 core and earth from your new switch to the new outside light.
Put the live into gang 2 L1, your neutral into the neutral terminal block and earth into the back box.
Connect the outside light to the appropriate L, N and earth terminals.

 

[seasickstevie]

If you don't have a live and neutral at the switch and you still want to operate the outside light from that new (double gang) switch then....
You will need to replace your existing 2 core and earth with a three core and earth bringing live, switch live, neutral and earth to the new switch.
Then in gang one put your live into C your switch live into L1 and your earth into the back box. Put your neutral in a terminal block. Run a small piece of insulated cable from your gang one C to gang 2 C terminals.
Then run 2 core and earth from your new switch to the new outside light.
Put the live into gang 2 L1, your neutral into the neutral terminal block and earth into the back box.
Connect the outside light to the appropriate L, N and earth terminals.

. . . Then blow your nose and straighten your collar.

 

[JohnW2]

.... creating a situation in which robots or monkeys with the appropriate 'checklists' and guidance documents could do our job, without having any understanding of what they were doing, or why ....

Which is related to the scenario I often warn about, where I tell people that what they need to do is to learn and to come to understand what they are doing, and not come here looking for somebody to just give them put-this-wire-in-that-hole instructions for them to blindly follow.

Response can be found in this new thread

Kind Regards, John