Do I really need to rewire ?

[roadiesean]

I am buying a Victorian house, 1895, it has definitely been rewired over the years and has a 1970's fuseboard in it, every electrician I've had in the door has said. "needs a complete re-wire this", with the sucking of teeth you get when you take your car in for service. This is a beautiful old house, with beautiful skirting boards, picture rails and cornicing and it seems crazy to knock seven bells out of it to get the wiring "up to date" when all the lights work, all the sockets work and there is only 2 pieces of 2 core wiring in the house.

Whats the consensus view on this ?? I am flummoxed and worried about destroying the integrity of my beautiful house, but equally, I don't want it to burn down.......

Thanks
Sean

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[Robgers]

Sean

Did the sucking of teeth occur after a visual inspection or after testing?

 

[1550]

I agree with Holmslaw , if the property does need a rewire there is no need for the property to be butchered.

It's impossible to say if it needs a rewire as a test to the condition of the existing wiring and future use of the installation needs will be the main factor in deciding this. However, upgrading will be required at some stage of it's life: and when better than when the house is empty and has an owner who cares about it's character. Good luck in finding an electrician who also cares. Contrary to opinion there are loads about.

 

[ricicle]

If you are really against the rewire route then if the cables are all PVC and the lighting circuits contain a CPC (earth wire) then an insulation test might prove the cables to be fine for continued use with appropriate visual inspections. (Depending on adequacy of points and locations)
This alongside a new consumer unit and upgraded main earthing and bonding could be ok, but as mentioned above a rewire is not all bang and crash....

 

[1john]

It's been said, but I will mention it again, old victorian houses do not need destroying to rewire them, although i have seen them abused for this to take place there is very little excuse, infact there are many benefits to the constriction of such houses which make the rewiring of such properties easier to do a neat job, to name a few -

Plaster is normally deep and has lime plaster which is sort and easy to remove. It also means you can remove it quite deep in order to drill up behind the cornice or chip away top and bottom of the picture rail and get behind it with no damage.

The skirtings are usually fitted before plastering takes place and although they are deep there is usually a generous void behind them for you to feed cables up through from the floorboards to the accessories.

There are floor boards, not chipboard, they are easier to lift and get access to places. there will be herringbone struts rather than complete noggins filling the joist area making cable fishing much easier.

The majority of the houses I have worked in have continual joists from front to back which also makes cable fishing easier.

 

[pjcomp]

You asked for consensus, so I'll add my fourpenn'orth and agree with 1john - it can actually be relatively easy to rewire an older building than a modern one, for the reasons he's mentioned.

But ...

Sockets are usually relatively easy to rewire, replace and extend as they come up from the floor and don't involve much in the way of chasing out and making good. But switch drops will come down from hat is likely to be a high ceiling and if it's a replacement job then you're looking at a long chase out down from the ceiling which will need to be made good. Added to which, the chasing out can bring about quite a bit of collateral damage to surrounding plasterwork, which may be long past its best.

PJ

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But before going sown any of those roads....

every electrician I've had in the door has said. "needs a complete re-wire this", with the sucking of teeth you get when you take your car in for service.

Have any of them given you anything more formal or professional than that?

Only if you have the installation properly inspected and tested, and a formal written report issued, will you know what really needs doing. Yes, that will cost you a few £'00, but without it you have no basis to proceed.

 

[sparkwright]

there is only 2 pieces of 2 core wiring in the house.

What does that mean?
Are you talking about twin flat cable without earth wire?
Possibly on the lighting circuit? This would probably be over 45 years old.

As said, it may not actually need re-wiring as such, but it should be checked over first to determine what needs or should be re-done.

If you are planning on redecoration or don't have enough sockets you should think about improving the installation.

As said, there is no need to damage any of the mouldings.
The sockets require minimal disruption.

There is a very good chance the switch drops will already be in conduit beneath the plaster, which would allow you to pull new cables in.

Photos please.

 

[ericmark]

I think BAS has hit nail on the head first is a full PIR as old does not always need replacing.

There are also other cables to twin and earth and loads of methods to complete a neat job. Unfortunately Part P has removed many commercial electricians from the domestic but there are still some who can work with mineral insulated cable which is much smaller than twin and earth and can be surface mounted. Often used where internal walls are stone or brick. I would not think it would be required in your house just pointing out there are methods that can be used even where wires can't be buried.

Houses wired before 1960 often had no earth to lights. This would limit what type of fittings you can use. Also my dad's house built 1952 had 5 sockets far better than my grand dad's with 2. It was common to fit just one socket in each room. The result was over the years DIY on DIY would cause spurs off spurs and figure of 8 ring mains. So really any house older than around 1970 before last re-wire is likely to have many faults.

The fuse board is often the give away with just 4 fuses feeding whole house. Although BAS is right and you do need a PIR before you really know, as electricians we do normally see the signs well before we start on the inspection and testing.

As a new occupier you are recommended by the IET to have an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) which is the new name to replace The Periodic Inspection Report (PIR). This is because we all know people extend and alter electrics without using the meters and procedures they should and all too often there are faults as a result. Also you should have it re-checked every 10 years this is to check for any degrading. By looking at old readings and comparing with new readings one should see any trends where cables are degrading. However although in commercial that may work in domestic being given old set of results to compare readings is very rare.

 

[thatbloke]

Why would you need a re-wire then guys? If the wiring worked OK when first installed what would be wrong with it now? Surely any dodgy DIY would have reared up before now?
Just asking because the wiring in my house is old too.

 

[flameport]

If the wiring worked OK when first installed what would be wrong with it now?

Possibly nothing. Possibly a whole lot of things.

Rubber insulation dries out and crumbles to dust, leaving bare wires.
Even PVC cable insulation doesn't last for ever, and will degrade over time, particularly if cables are overloaded.
The contacts in sockets and switches wear, and cause loose connections or just break completely.
Ceiling roses and lampholders will become brittle due to the heat from the lamp. Same applies to the wires in the ceiling rose and the flex between the lampholder and rose.
Where cables are located in exposed places such as a loft, in a cavity wall or under the floor, they can be damaged by people storing boxes on top of them, people stepping on them, vermin chewing them or expanded polystyrene in contact with the PVC cable.

Even if the entire installation is still in good order, the chances are that there won't be enough sockets (1 per room was common for bedrooms only 30 years ago), the sockets won't be in the right places, and most people don't want a single light pendant in every room.

More likely is that a whole selection of people will have made various additions and modifications, most of which will be a shambles and in some instances blatantly dangerous.

Then there are items which were not considered or even in existence such as outside lights, smoke alarms, sockets for garden equipment, garden lighting, home office buildings, sheds, garages, workshops, cable & satellite TV in multiple rooms, televisions everywhere, solar panels and so on.

There is also a huge difference between things working and the installation being safe.

 

[thatbloke]

So really , a full re-wire would usually not be required however, say new sockets and some wiring may need replacing, also new sockets might need adding to the existing wiring providing the existing is up to the job?

So , in this case the electrician is indeed stating that all or at least a large percentage of the existing wiring is at fault? Surely he cannot condemn the current installation because he thinks there are not enough sockets in a bed room and could only do so if the complete electrical infrastructure within the house was at fault?

 

[1john]

It is important to remember that just because the electrical installation is functional, in as much as it works, it doesn't mean it is safe.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Only if you have the installation properly inspected and tested, and a formal written report issued, will you know what really needs doing. Yes, that will cost you a few £'00, but without it you have no basis to proceed.