Document Q?

[Gazman16]

Hello my fellow window fitters.
Does anyone know of any suppliers that are set up and accredited to supply document Q rated windows and doors. Hopefully that will deliver to Somerset.

Its seems all 5 of my usual suppliers are not ready for it yet (even though it started in October!).

 

[crank39]

Maybe your usual 5 can't get the accreditation? But surely most windows and doors should be able to meet doc q, I'll ask my place, they deliver to scotland, just done a load of Ali frames for villas in Spain, big Arctic was being loaded the other day, eurocell if that's OK Gaz?

 

[Gazman16]

Yes Eurocell is good.
Anyone make can do it (I think) They are just holding off paying the fees to get them tested.
I have heard Eurocell have a list of approved parts to comply with it so maybe this is something all the systems are working on.

 

[crank39]

I'll ask tomorrow if they're doc q

 

[crank39]

If i get up in time!

 

[Gazman16]

Cheers.
I used to use Eurocell when I started up on my own but the local factory I was using went bust, Then I found Liniar that are of course basically the same make but cheaper and they seem to be much more modern in the way they make and promote new products.

I still use Eurocell for my trims and bits but the building supply branches are silly money for windows and doors as they dont make them they just buy them back from a factory lol

 

[DHFrames]

Yep ours are, delivery shouldn't be a problem.
PM me Gaz

 

[Gazman16]

PM sent cheers

 

[crank39]

Spoke with the production manager at my place today, I'm quoting from memory here but basically only applies to new build and any foiled frame that leaves their premises complies with pas 24 or document q or whatever they choose to call it automatically due to all the reinforcing that goes into it, their basic C rated white windows wouldn't comply unless made to the same spec as a foiled window, locks and keeps and hinges already meet doc.

Surprisingly though if your supplier hasn't got the accreditation for say the PVC but has for his hardware I'm told he can get his frames made by a company that complies and then fits his own hardware kind of like cherry picking all the accredited parts from other suppliers and fabricating the completed article also piggybacking on others accreditation, seems a bit weird to me, he's had the BSI people in recently regards this so it was quite fresh in his mind, me........well he only told me 3 hours ago and I've forgotten 80% of it already.

Furthermore he says because it only applies to new builds or for planning submitted after October 2015 he can envisage problems quoting and whether to apply doc q to the windows or door or not, if a builder shopping for quotes doesn't spec then its the responsibility of the supplier to ask, if neither ask then your not quoting apples for apples, seems like a minefield to me

 

[ronniecabers]

To me , the whole thing is a farce , as usual. Badly implemented and will probably be badly policed, how is anyone to know , once produced , if a frame definetly has reinforcing in it or not unless you drill into it

 

[crank39]

I was falling asleep when he was explaining all this, what a farce

 

[DHFrames]

Poor info given along with late notice, any builds that have not been granted planning permission before Sept 15 will require part Q (I think), that's what our supplier has passed on to us.


Hi All,


There have been some further amendments to Document Q so please see the below / attached amended information.


Application


Document Q is only applicable in England and covers the New Build market and buildings that are formed by a material change of use - garage to living room for example. It applies to doors and windows on the ground floor, basement and other easily accessible doors and windows (window or doorway which is within 2m vertically of an accessible level surface)


Door Specification


PAS24 Standards - PAS24 Handle / PAS24 Lock / PAS24 Hinges

This in effect means all new builds we supply will need to have a PAS 24 handle specified on order, the YS170 lock and Kore Flag hinges we use already comply.


Door Viewer

The main door for entering a dwelling should have a door viewer unless other means exist to see callers - such as clear glass or a clear window next to it. If using a front door with a panel bottom, mullion top with obscure glass the door would need a viewer for example - as would full door panels.


Additional Security

The main door for entering a dwelling should now have a door security chain. On open out doors additional hinge protection is required - so open out doors will have dog bolts as standard.


Letterbox & Cowls

To be located and/or designed to hinder anyone attempting to remove keys with sticks and/or insert their hand, for example by incorporating a flap or other features to restrict access. Doors requesting document Q compliance will now be provided with a letter box cowl.


Glazing

Doors requiring document Q compliance will now need to have laminate glass as standard, this also extends to door panels at an extra charge.

 

[Gazman16]

To be honest I think extra security is a good thing although probably slightly over kill here.
Laminated glass downstairs is something I recommend to my rural customers anyway and it is shocking that people are still allowed to fit a cheap £2 cylinder to doors that can be snapped in seconds even now.

Did you know that and windows that are easily accessible will also need doc Q, So above a low pitch or flat roof or conservatory etc.
There is even talk that the wording of the document may mean it also technically applies to conservatory's too, Especially if the internal separating doors are removed (which of course you should never do).

I hear that both Liniar and Eurocell have a list of approved parts that will make their windows compliant so anyone manufacturing those brands should be able to do it easily. My guys just found out so they are just going over the details before they send me a price which I will compare to the ones DH has sent me before I get this quote in the post.