Dodgy door move?

[Katawampus]

Hi everyone wondering if somebody could please offer some advice? I'm sorry, this is going to be a rambler...

A guy who is fitting our kitchen got another guy to come in and move a doorway for us approximately eight inches. It's in a single storey extension built onto the back of our victorian terraced house. The fitter was displeased with this guys work in the first day saying it was messily done and said he would finish the job off by re-setting the frame. Now that the fitter has had a go with it, looking at it, the original wooden lintel is still in place above where the old doorway was, and nothing has been put in over the new gap.

When I questioned the kitchen fitter on this he said that the lintel is not necessary as there's nothing much over the door although there is a pitched roof and that wall goes all the way up into it which is a few feet. I believe this wall used to be external until they stuck another bit of extension to it.

Anyway, I believe I already know the answer but, am I right? Does it need a concrete lintel or RSJ? Also, it needs to be signed off by building regs doesn't it? I do still trust the fitter guy to do kitchens but a builder he ain't and I've already told him I'm not happy with it, just would like some expertise please.

Thanks for sticking with me there!

Kat[/b]

 

[tony1851]

Strictly speaking there should be a couple of 100 x 65 concrete lintels over the opening.

But in practice, lack of lintels may not matter. Just because there's a 'few feet' of brickwork over the opening, it doesn't mean to say that the frame will be supporting a few feet of brickwork - it doesn't work like that.

However, if you want a certificate, you will have to get Building Control involved, and they will want to see a lintel

 

[Katawampus]

Thanks Tony. It's probably obvious that I have little idea about building works. I think I'd rather get the regs as we've just bought this place and the solicitor was going mad asking for certificates for all kinds of stuff that the seller didn't have so don't want that to be us when we come to sell!

 

[geraldthehamster]

Madness

 

[tony1851]

Madness

Why?

 

[geraldthehamster]

Madness

Why?

Unnecessary expense in getting someone to expose the work, paying Building Control, paying someone to make good again. Plus mess. The job's done now, would you bother if it was your house?

Cheers
Richard

 

[tony1851]

Madness

Why?

Unnecessary expense in getting someone to expose the work, paying Building Control, paying someone to make good again. Plus mess. The job's done now, would you bother if it was your house?

Cheers
Richard

I got the wrong end of the stick - I thought you were saying it was madness to leave it without a lintel. Sure, if it was mine, I'd leave it.

cheers.

 

[Katawampus]

The jobs not done, I told them to stop. The frames not fixed in properly and it hasn't been plastered. It's wierd because everyone I've spoken to IRL reckons there should be a lintel in there. I don't know what to do

 

[tony1851]

In practice, you almost certainly won't have a problem and here's why.
In diagram one, the timber lintel only supports a triangle of brickwork (assuming no unusual circumstances). This is due to the 'arching' effect of brickwork, and it doesn't matter whether there is 2 ft or 200ft of brickwork over the lintel - the load supported is just the same.

In diag. 2, you have moved the frame 8" to the right, and bricked up on the left, leaving the lintel in position. The new brickwork below the lintel will 'wedge' the lintel in, so the lintel will be acting almost as a cantilever. This means that the lintel will not be transferring all the triangukar load on to the door frame - it will be supporting some of the load itself by it's own 'resistance moment'.

In practice, the only real load the frame will be carrying will be the additional stepped brickwork on the right. Most of this small additional load will be acting down the vertical jamb of the frame, and will not really have much effect on the head of the frame.

Untitled

• tony1851
• 10 Apr 2015
• 1

 

[Katawampus]

Thank you very much for illustrating that for me - I understand! So how far would the door have to move along under the lintel for it to be deemed not ideal?

 

[tony1851]

Probably depends on how thin the head of the frame is. The further to the right it goes, the more unsupported brickwork you have because the existing timber lintel provides less support.

 

[Katawampus]

Yeh I think I definitely underestimated how far along they moved the door (I just asked them to make room for the fridge). In actual fact the lintel goes only about half way over the new door. I think that's why it looks scary. Sorry!