Dodgy ring final extension...

[bongos]

To start, apologies for the dodgy pic

A mate is having a small extension built on the rear of his dining room. The spark has been round to add a couple of sockets in the extension. When I was round the other day I noticed that sockets C & D had been connected straight from socket B (red lines). There is no FCU.

I pointed out to my mate that he needed to come back and extend the ring and that the current set up was not allowed. Can't see why he didn't do it properly in the first place as it only requires an extra 4m of 2.5mm t+e. There would be no need to use a FCU anyway because of easy access to the ring. The spark said he would come round and sort it.

When I went round last night the spark appears to have run the new section of cable from socket D back to B (green line). To me this still isn't right as there is now a ring off a ring. Surely the correct method is to run the cable from socket D back to A and remove the link between A & B.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Spark123]

It could be done as you say by connecting the green line from D to A and removing the A-B leg.
It could also be done by joining one of the legs entering socket B directly to the green leg without it connecting into the socket terminals, basically just using the socket back box as a terminal box.
I'd question the ablility of this so called spark tho. Is he a member of a competent person scheme?

 

[bongos]

Not sure if he's a member of a competent person scheme. I've suggested my mate has a look at the competent persons website to see if he's on there.

TBH I find it a little worrying that he wasn't going to extend the ring in the first place when he has easy access to it. He hasn't bothered to check if there is RCD protection or if the bonding is up to scratch. But if he connects as you say by making a join in the backbox then the ring has been exteded. Which would be the Spark 123 way of extending the RFC?

 

[electronicsuk]

Just as worrying is the diagonal cable run in green, assuming the drawing matches the physical wiring layout then this is well outside the safe zones.

 

[Steve]

Just as worrying is the diagonal cable run in green, assuming the drawing matches the physical wiring layout then this is well outside the safe zones.

plan view mate

 

[Taylortwocities]

You would need to check what has been done in the back box at B.

He may have connected the green wire (D-A) to the black wire to A, having removed it from the socket at B.

Then he could have connected the red wire (C-B) into the socket at B. In that way he will have extended the ring.


He does still need to check bonding & RCD. The work should have produced a minor works cert. Did you get one? What does it say on it? - there is a section in which he should have filled in the Zs for the circuit and the RCD trip times.

 

[ericmark]

Beware of phrase competent person as this is defined as:- A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and
experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

So if you asks an electrician if he is a competent person he could well say yes even when he is not Registered and when working for builders since they have to pay for LABC anyway they don't need to be registered and is money they can't see point in paying.

Kitchens, Bathrooms, outside and central heating needs Part P completion certs and the rest does not require it.

Forgetting about Part P any good electrician will be a member of some organisation so he can be kept up-dated I joined the IET and unless they are a member of some organisation the chances are they don't care.

So I always recommend people to use Registered electricians when sticking in the pin. That's not to say there are not loads of good electricians around who are not Registered but in the main they work on commercial stuff and are not interested in domestic work.

Although it may not be Part P it still needs Paperwork most likely a Minor works but it is hard to criticise too much without testing and inspecting. I have run the two ring main cables next to each other and it would be easy to think it was not a ring main. I have also seen where radials have been used and in error someone extended it using 2.5mm sq thinking it was a ring main.

Even the best make mistakes which is why many firms use someone else to inspect and test to who does the work. Reduces chance of error.

 

[rebuke]

The correct question to ask, is are you a member of a Part P competent persons scheme - if they say yes to that, then check that the individual / company is listed on www.competentperson.co.uk

Edited to fix URL - oops...

 

[electronicsuk]

Just as worrying is the diagonal cable run in green, assuming the drawing matches the physical wiring layout then this is well outside the safe zones.

plan view mate

Thought the layout seemed odd

 

[Taylortwocities]

The correct question to ask, is are you a member of a Part P competent persons scheme - if they say yes to that, then check that the individual / company is listed on www.competent-person.co.uk

Thats the wrong site. The correct one is www.competentperson.co.uk

 

[bongos]

Just as worrying is the diagonal cable run in green, assuming the drawing matches the physical wiring layout then this is well outside the safe zones.

plan view mate

Thought the layout seemed odd

Apologies - the drawing is a crap but it is a plan view.

The red cable from socket B to C actually goes through the rear of the back box and through what was the external wall, before running down the wall and back under the new floor. It is just about in a safe zone being 150mm from the corner of the wall but it doesn't seem like the most obvious route.

Although the spark hasn't checked RCD & bonding this is actually up to scratch due to a recent rewire (he never enquired about their presence though). I told my mate he should be expecting a MWC as a result of the work.

I have run the two ring main cables next to each other and it would be easy to think it was not a ring main. I have also seen where radials have been used and in error someone extended it using 2.5mm sq thinking it was a ring main.

Even the best make mistakes which is why many firms use someone else to inspect and test to who does the work. Reduces chance of error.

It's not that i'm trying to pull the spark apart (i'm not a spark myself) but putting two sockets on an unfused spur has not been acceptable for a long time and it just seemed that it was unacceptably sloppy when there was such easy access to the existing ring final.