Domestic 3 way switching

[SUNRAY]

This little just job: Something wrong with the switch, stopped working properly

A very different and clean LAP 2way switch as part of a 3 way, the other 2 are cream Contactum 2ways.
Incorrect operation demonstrated.

Wired with all red T&E and 3C&E. I didn't bother taking pics as wouldn't be useful:

Orange circles are choc blocks, the wires had been twisted and looked undisturbed.

Total insistence it worked perfectly until the weekend when it started playing up.

 

[morqthana]

Total insistence it worked perfectly until the weekend when it started playing up.

Why do that? Don't people realise it makes them look like a lying idiot, rather than just an idiot?

Tenant or owner-occupier?

 

[endecotp]

If you walk around randomly toggling switches and observing whether the light state toggles, it will work correctly two thirds of the time:

- The right switch always works.
- The middle switch and the left switch both work when the other is up.

Most such switches are used with a particular routine, e.g. landing switch used only at bedtime, leaving some combinations rarely used.

There was someone posting here a few months ago who believed that the order in which he operated the switches influenced the state of the light. He disappeared before I could prove him wrong!

 

[pete01]

Why do that?

People get embarrassed

 

[ericmark]

My own landing light, seems to have its moods as to if it will work or not, the relay should be triggered with a change of state, it does not really matter if on or off, it is triggered with a change of state.

I rarely use the switches, 98% of the time I use voice control I think the problem is contact bounce, but I can see how one could be unaware of a fault for a very long time.

But as far as two-way or three-way lighting goes, two-way describes the switch not the system, it has two possible outputs, and a three-way the same, often used on enter lamps on rooms, enter, knock, busy etc. And with three switches is there any difference between a reversing switch and intermediate switch? Well I suppose if there is a centre off, then that could also be called a three-way switch.

 

[SUNRAY]

My own landing light, seems to have its moods as to if it will work or not, the relay should be triggered with a change of state, it does not really matter if on or off, it is triggered with a change of state.

I rarely use the switches, 98% of the time I use voice control I think the problem is contact bounce, but I can see how one could be unaware of a fault for a very long time.

But as far as two-way or three-way lighting goes, two-way describes the switch not the system, it has two possible outputs, and a three-way the same, often used on enter lamps on rooms, enter, knock, busy etc. And with three switches is there any difference between a reversing switch and intermediate switch? Well I suppose if there is a centre off, then that could also be called a three-way switch.

Yes I know what a 3 way switch is but like so many situations the consensus tends to corrupt correct terminology.

 

[SUNRAY]

If you walk around randomly toggling switches and observing whether the light state toggles, it will work correctly two thirds of the time:

- The right switch always works.
- The middle switch and the left switch both work when the other is up.

Most such switches are used with a particular routine, e.g. landing switch used only at bedtime, leaving some combinations rarely used.

There was someone posting here a few months ago who believed that the order in which he operated the switches influenced the state of the light. He disappeared before I could prove him wrong!

Yes we've often had such situations either through incorrect installation or later faults.

 

[SUNRAY]

Why do that? Don't people realise it makes them look like a lying idiot, rather than just an idiot?

Tenant or owner-occupier?

Owner occupier, When I explained the issue he walked to SF to get an identical looking but intermediate switch, the repair took about one minute.

 

[ebee]

When a customer gives me info, say when a fault occurs I consider three possiblities (quick mentally before touching anything)

1/ They are telling the truth.
2/ They are telling a lie - perhaps due to embarrassment.
3/ Perhaps they are telling what they think is the truth as told them by someone else for reason 2/.

Sometimes you know straight away what they tell you is absolutely impossible.

Sometimes you can actually see that someone has meddled around last week/last year/20 years ago because it been altered since you installed and it worked until recently.

Such things as changing switches/decorating/immersion heater worked for years by stat failed so they replaced it "exactly as was and wiring not altered" ok the new stat is now wired across the heater it can never have worked like that!

Things I classify as the "Old Chestnuts" LOL

 

[ericmark]

Oh, I remember my father-in-law coming around to say no hot water, can I fix it.
1) The switch clearly labelled as immersion heater, supplied the solar panel pumps, and he had switched it off, as immersion heater was removed when solar panels fitted.
2) When the smart meter was fitted, the pilot flame had not been re-lit, so boiler did not work.
3) The solar panels it seems had never worked, they got water tepid at best, but since electric bill had reduced FIL thought they were working and saving him money. Clearly his gas bill would have gone up.

So question one was, had turning off the solar panel pumps caused the system to stop working, or had it never worked, we got it re-pressurised but it still never worked. We abandoned the work when my FIL died and house was sold.

The relighting of the pilot flame got DHW back, likely cost him more in gas to what he saved in electric.

New owners ripped out all the solar panel stuff, and were quite apologetic when telling me, and their face lit up when they were told it never worked anyway.

 

[morqthana]

People get embarrassed

So they've screwed up because they didn't know enough about what they were doing, which is fair enough - people can unexpectedly get out of their depth, it happens.

But then they look someone in the eye and lie to them, and they think that makes them look better?

What a dreadful thing to do.

 

[opps]

When a customer gives me info, say when a fault occurs I consider three possiblities (quick mentally before touching anything)

1/ They are telling the truth.
2/ They are telling a lie - perhaps due to embarrassment.
3/ Perhaps they are telling what they think is the truth as told them by someone else for reason 2/.

Sometimes you know straight away what they tell you is absolutely impossible.

Sometimes you can actually see that someone has meddled around last week/last year/20 years ago because it been altered since you installed and it worked until recently.

Such things as changing switches/decorating/immersion heater worked for years by stat failed so they replaced it "exactly as was and wiring not altered" ok the new stat is now wired across the heater it can never have worked like that!

Things I classify as the "Old Chestnuts" LOL

Years ago I got a call from a regular customer. She told me that her laptop had stopped working and she tried putting a pin in the reset hole. I guess she was getting confused with her Windows PDA. Anywho, I inspected the laptop. She had managed to delete the whole windows directory. I had never come across that before but managed to reinstall windows over the top without losing any of her data.

Now when customers tell me what was happening when A/B/C took place, I don't automatically assume that they are being factual.

 

[morqthana]

She had managed to delete the whole windows directory. I had never come across that before

I'm surprised it's even possible when Windows is running.

Maybe when the pin-in-the-reset-hole popped open the CD tray she stuck a live Linux CD in, booted that, and deleted the directory that way.

 

[pete01]

So they've screwed up because they didn't know enough about what they were doing, which is fair enough - people can unexpectedly get out of their depth, it happens.

But then they look someone in the eye and lie to them, and they think that makes them look better?

What a dreadful thing to do.

Get a grip man its a light switch not murder.

 

[opps]

I'm surprised it's even possible when Windows is running.

Maybe when the pin-in-the-reset-hole popped open the CD tray she stuck a live Linux CD in, booted that, and deleted the directory that way.

She wouldn't have known about Live CDs. I honestly couldn't work out what she did. I used a live linux CD to look at the drive- that was when I discovered that C:\WINDOWS directory was missing. First time I had come across that.

PC support was a side line rather than my primary income.

It was back in the days of XP. I can't recall if I did a fresh install over the top or
chkdsk C: /f , sfc /scannow