Door in middle of frame
- Thread starter Paul205
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Could you be a little more vague 
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D
Deleted member 174758
Standard doors are always fitted to one edge or the other of a frame because that works. Trying to get a door to fix into the middle of a casing with butt hinges would be an exercise in frustration - or more likely madness.
The only time I can think of where you'd centre a door a casing is on doors such as double swing doors (i.e. they open either way), as used in places like restaurant kitchens. These doors are hung on what are colloqially known as "bomber door hinges" (actually incorrect - they are double-action sprung hinges) in this part of the world:
To prepare the door casing for these a 1-1/2 to 2in thick timber batten must be fixed to the hinge side of the frame/casing which is approximately the same thickness as the door. There are a number of other things you need to do to install them, including radiusing the front edge of the door because the clearances are generally not all that tight and the knuckles will have to be chopped back into both the door and the batten. In general you install these as 2-door sets, and as B-A says, they will hit the casing/frame at the end of travel so you need to install door stops on both sides to limit the travel to about 90 degrees and so prevent this. Was that what you were after?
The only time I can think of where you'd centre a door a casing is on doors such as double swing doors (i.e. they open either way), as used in places like restaurant kitchens. These doors are hung on what are colloqially known as "bomber door hinges" (actually incorrect - they are double-action sprung hinges) in this part of the world:
To prepare the door casing for these a 1-1/2 to 2in thick timber batten must be fixed to the hinge side of the frame/casing which is approximately the same thickness as the door. There are a number of other things you need to do to install them, including radiusing the front edge of the door because the clearances are generally not all that tight and the knuckles will have to be chopped back into both the door and the batten. In general you install these as 2-door sets, and as B-A says, they will hit the casing/frame at the end of travel so you need to install door stops on both sides to limit the travel to about 90 degrees and so prevent this. Was that what you were after?
D
Deleted member 174758
All I can say is be prepared to hack big bits out if the door - oh and watch your fingers when you are tensioning them. Good luck
D
Deleted member 174758
Good point! No, you are quite right. I've only ever used these on solid core doors (chipboard, laminboard core, etc, i.e 30 minute fire doors and better) or solid wood (frame and panel) doors. The spring pressure in them means that a hollow core door would just get ripped apart in short order IMHO, as I suspect would the thinnest B&Q 4-panel cheapies
Does the door need to swing both ways though, the op doesn't mention it so why can't you use a parliament hinge, a nice deep one will make sure the pin has cleared to door frame or am I missing something here?
i thought about parliament hinges
but suspect the op wants symmetry so large amounts off hinge showing would ruin the symmetry
also because its a parliamentary hinge the pivot point only has to be say 4mm beyond the halfway point between door face and architrave face to turn to 180 degrees although you would have to rebate the frame to accommodate the opening half off the hinge
a shorter hinge would reducing the the progressively excessive gap and lead edge for a long throw hinge
but suspect the op wants symmetry so large amounts off hinge showing would ruin the symmetry
also because its a parliamentary hinge the pivot point only has to be say 4mm beyond the halfway point between door face and architrave face to turn to 180 degrees although you would have to rebate the frame to accommodate the opening half off the hinge
a shorter hinge would reducing the the progressively excessive gap and lead edge for a long throw hinge
Another , albeit expensive , option is to use a floor mounted door closer which puts the pivot point around 40mm from the casing. I've fitted doors in just that manner , not my own I might add , in buildings with thick walls and panelling .
https://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Dorma-BTS-75-V-Floor-Spring-.html
https://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Dorma-BTS-75-V-Floor-Spring-.html
D
Deleted member 174758
"Parlies" are designed to be used where the door is mounted conventionally at the edge of the frame/casing. The OP called for a 20mm gap either side of the frame, and "Parlies" for 44mm doors (the OP stated 40mm) will generally give you about 20 to 25mm set-off, which may or may not be quite enough to allow the door to clear the skirting if you tried open it flat against the wall. Yes, you can get hinges with bigger set-offs, but they're the ones for 5in thick bank doors, etc. I suspect that because "Parlies" jack the door out from the casing when the door is opened they might just narrow to door opening too much when the door is opened by 90 degrees, especially when you consider that a batten will almost certainly need to be installed in the casing to carry them (I really wouldn't want to try chopping a pair of them into the middle of a casing). For those reasons I didn't suggest them
Yes, they do work, but they, too, require a really solid door. I've only ever installed then in solid wood or laminboard core doors in public areas of "corporate" type buildings. They require a fair degree of accuracy (much more than bomber hinges) and you need to dig-out quite a bit of floor to incorporate the spring box. Both edges should be radiused if a good fit is required. Seem to recall the last sets I bought coming around £150 to £200. I enjoy doing them - they really sort the men from the boys......
Yes I've only ever fitted them on public buildings . I fitted some down in South Wales that were electrically operated for disabled use and also wired into the fire alarm system if I recall , they were Geze products. We were told they cost something like £3500 ( it may have been more I can't quite remember )each which we thought hard to believe but certainly out of the range for domestic use.
On a similar vein but far simpler was an oak door in a medieval building which had concealed pins set at a similar position to the door closer pins but that again doesn't actually help the OP .
On a similar vein but far simpler was an oak door in a medieval building which had concealed pins set at a similar position to the door closer pins but that again doesn't actually help the OP .
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