Downlight Conundrum

[Energy4Vector]

Hi people,

I have recently purchased some new downlight fittings for the living room. I bought one at first to ensure it was compatible. The one I tried was a simple levering of the two springs to pop the old one out and the new one in.

Of course, now I have bought a set for the lounge the rest of the fittings are different! They each have an earthed bar screwed into the sping loaded fixing itself. The new one has no fitting for an earth at all. Can anyone see a fairly simple way round this? Maybe drill a threaded screw hole onto the new ones to secure these earthed bars? Otherwise may be best to forget the idea of changing them over as the reason was purely aesthetics.

Here is the new fixing:

Here is the earthed bar screwed into the current fixing which was not on the first one I tried but is on all the ones I have tried since (three)

Any help or guidance is much appreicated.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Perhaps the new one doesn't need earthing.

Is it double insulated - shown by the symbol of a square within a square and stated in the instructions?

 

[Energy4Vector]

Perhaps the new one doesn't need earthing.

Is it double insulated - shown by the symbol of a square within a square and stated in the instructions?

Thanks, you’re right, it is double insulated:

It will just be a case of swapping out all the electrical fixing. This new one is clearly double insulated class 2:

For the current ones that quite a length to go to earth them then.

With the earth wire on the bar would you remove the bar and cover the end of the earth wire with some electrical tape and leave it inside?

Thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

With the earth wire on the bar would you remove the bar and cover the end of the earth wire with some electrical tape and leave it inside?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

 

[blup]

Just unscrew and tape it

 

[Energy4Vector]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

Sorry didn’t explain it well. This metal bar with the earth that I no longer need is screwed at both end:

I will need to unscrew the lower one to get the old fitting off. I wanted to know what I should then do since I don’t need it. Unscrew it from other end and take it out then leave the earth hanging down loose on its own and make good with electrical tape on the exposed bit? Which I think @blup means.

 

[mrsplodge]

What's the other end screwed to? I'd be tempted to leave the earth attached to the bar and keep the bar fixed somewhere out the way if that's easy. Or even if you're super lucky the bar might be able to be screwed to that top screw on the new fitting. Or just snip the earth and terminate it in a Wago, but I'm not sure if you'd technically need to put it in a maintenance free enclosure.

 

[Energy4Vector]

What's the other end screwed to? I'd be tempted to leave the earth attached to the bar and keep the bar fixed somewhere out the way if that's easy. Or even if you're super lucky the bar might be able to be screwed to that top screw on the new fitting. Or just snip the earth and terminate it in a Wago, but I'm not sure if you'd technically need to put it in a maintenance free enclosure.

Now having had a good look inside the fitting hole there isn’t really another end. That earthed plate is just an extension of a larger plate that houses the cables for that fitting:

This now would be important to keep looking at the housing; if the brown wire up on the main bit of the plate were to come loose for example. So maybe just secure it to one of those lathes with some tape?

 

[EFLImpudence]

This now would be important to keep looking at the housing; if the brown wire up on the main bit of the plate were to come loose for example. So maybe just secure it to one of those lathes with some tape?

I am still confused about which bit and which lamp this is, but -

Yes, that is the point. If the wires are exposed like that then the item will require earthing.

Only if they are totally enclosed and double insulated can an earth connection be omitted.

 

[flameport]

The existing 'metal plate' efforts are typical of cheapo substandard downlights which didn't really comply with any standards.
As you have new lights, none of the existing parts are of any relevance.
Remove them and use whatever is supplied with the new ones.

The grey cables in the ceiling will pull out through the hole so new items can be attached to them.

If the new lights cannot accept 2x cables, then get these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/greenbro...tor-with-quick-click-push-fit-terminals/326PG
attach one half to the grey cables in the ceiling, and connect the other half to the new lights using a short length of 2 core flex.
The two halves plug together and are shoved into the ceiling.

 

[Energy4Vector]

The existing 'metal plate' efforts are typical of cheapo substandard downlights which didn't really comply with any standards.
As you have new lights, none of the existing parts are of any relevance.
Remove them and use whatever is supplied with the new ones.

The grey cables in the ceiling will pull out through the hole so new items can be attached to them.

If the new lights cannot accept 2x cables, then get these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/greenbro...tor-with-quick-click-push-fit-terminals/326PG
attach one half to the grey cables in the ceiling, and connect the other half to the new lights using a short length of 2 core flex.
The two halves plug together and are shoved into the ceiling.

Awesome, thank you. I’ve just been spending half an hour trying to get two lives into the new fitting with no luck so will do as you suggested!

That’s interesting that the current setup is really out of date and no very compliant. So much more involved to do it that way as well. Thanks!

 

[Energy4Vector]

The existing 'metal plate' efforts are typical of cheapo substandard downlights which didn't really comply with any standards.
As you have new lights, none of the existing parts are of any relevance.
Remove them and use whatever is supplied with the new ones.

The grey cables in the ceiling will pull out through the hole so new items can be attached to them.

If the new lights cannot accept 2x cables, then get these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/greenbro...tor-with-quick-click-push-fit-terminals/326PG
attach one half to the grey cables in the ceiling, and connect the other half to the new lights using a short length of 2 core flex.
The two halves plug together and are shoved into the ceiling.

Forgot to ask; with the earth wire should I just cut it shorty and put electrical tape over the bare end or secure it to a single terminal wago box or does it not matter which? Thanks

 

[flameport]

with the earth wire

If using these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/greenbro...tor-with-quick-click-push-fit-terminals/326PG
then the earth wires go into the earth terminal.
They must not be cut off, as that removes continuity from the rest of the circuit.

 

[Energy4Vector]

If using these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/greenbro...tor-with-quick-click-push-fit-terminals/326PG
then the earth wires go into the earth terminal.
They must not be cut off, as that removes continuity from the rest of the circuit.

I’ve bought the terminal box you suggested. I connected the female box to the cables in the ceiling as they have two clamps for the two sets of cable cores:

I then used a short piece of two core for between the male box and the fitting:

It all works. Does that all look ok? The only concern I had was that it was VERY difficult to put two of each wire into the female box. I would push the lever down, insert them then release. I would pull on them gently with pliers to check they don’t come out. Then when I started on the next wire and nudged the ones that were previously secure they would pop out. This happened a dozen or so times. I did pull on all 6 with a pair of pliers again before fitting the lid but with how easily they popped out it does worry me slightly.

Other than that it all went smoothly.

 

[bsr]

Can you pull one out and take a photo? They need a longer length of exposed copper than you might expect, hence not being retained properly. You shouldnt be able to pull them out easily.It may be that you need to strip a little more.

You also need to sleeve the earth:

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