Downlighters, regulations etc....

[Kes]

Thanks Kes, I'm definitely going to try this out. This electronic ballast, do you remove the standard starter then and wire this in instead, or do you have to find a fitting without a standard starter?

No, you just buy the complete tube/fitting/diffuser that says Electronic Ballast on the wrapping. I bought ours from B&Q (I know, but Wilkos didn't have the range and I had 10% old gits discount). There's a pile of rather ugly squarish fittings which are relatively cheap and say nothing on the wrapper, and some sleeker ones with the magic words Elect.. etc on them which are rather expensive. They're the ones to buy, I think they are Eterna - you can get them from other outlets so it's a matter of who's cheapest. They are wired just as any other light fitting would be.

If I can get a photo to show the effect I'll post it here.

Rgds.

PS This is the one http://www.eterna-lighting.co.uk/product.asp?stockcode=D121

 

[Dippy]

I 'gently' challanged him and he is rigid on it. He insists that my ground floor ceilings have a 30 min modified fire resistance and that by cutting holes in it I will be degrading that resistance.

Well he's wrong, as tests have been done and downlighter holes in a 30-minute ceiling have little or no effect:

In 1996, the DoE and TRADA commissioned TRADA
Technology Limited (TTL), a member of the TTL
Chiltern group of companies, to test the effect of
recessed downlighters (with no boxing in or fire
hoods) on the fire resistance of plasterboard ceilings
with conventional rectangular joists. TTL has been
involved in fire research and testing for many years
and is the UK’s leading authority on the fire
protection of timber. During 1994/95, TTL carried out
the tests. The results of the tests were published in
the July 1996 edition of Building Control magazine.
These results were, perhaps, surprising in that they
confirmed that downlighters, even without being
boxed in and with no fire hoods, in plasterboard
ceilings have little significant effect on fire resistance
ratings up to 30 minutes. It must be inferred from
these tests therefore, that, at least with plasterboard
ceilings with conventional rectangular joists, it is not
necessary to ‘box in’ luminaries or to use fire hoods
for the purpose of restoring the fire resistance
capability of ceilings which are not of fire
compartment construction.

Either point him at that article, or ask him to go back to the office and look in the July '96 edition of Building Control magazine, if they keep back issues.

Thanks a lot! I'll point him at that link and see what he has to say...

 

[securespark]

RULE 6) There is no rule 6.

Or, in the style of 7671, "RULE 6) This rule has been left intentionally blank for future use.

 

[Dippy]

Thanks a lot! I'll point him at that link and see what he has to say...

...as long as my house is of the same construction as used in the TRADA test, I won't need firehoods.

Can anyone find that detail for me please?

 

[Observer]

I have some downlighters at the moment which are ELV (On transformers, one per fitting). They are on a dimmer switch and the buzzing from the dimmer and from the fittings/transformers is unbearable. Any suggestions as to what to do to avoid that going forward?

There's a lot of disparaging nonsense on this board about ELV downlighters. They may not be very efficient but they provide a clean, crisp light and an uncluttered look.

For some purposes, they have unmatchable advantages. For example, I have a 'corridor' hallway ~4m long with no natural light (except some borrowed light from half-glazed doors). How should I light it? A pendant light, centrally positioned would (a) look awful (b) leave shadows at each end. It would need a 100W lamp (or equivalent CFC) and a shade that would be a dust trap. A fluoresecent luminaire - yuk. My solution - three ELV downlighters each with 20W lamp spaced 1m apart. Enought light and a clean modern look. Similarly, I have a staircase to a basement which has a low ceiling. How should I light that? Answer - three ELV gimbal downlighters titlted to project light straight down, agin each with 20W lamp. A reasonable spread of light exactly where I want it with no reduction in ceiling height.

As far as kitchens go, there are other options. Downlights do look good but you will need a lot of them if you have a large area to light. If you do go for them, then instead of dimmers you could break the lights into different zones to achieve different lighting levels. For example, in my kitchen, I have four zones: (i) main kitchen area, all 20W lamps (ii) worktop ligting, all 50W, (iii) diplay cabinet lighting (glazed and open fronted high level cupboards), 20W lamps (iv) under cupboard lighting, 10W capsules. I also have separate lighting circuit for the dining area. Each of these is independently switched and I can achieve different mood effects without using dimmers.

 

[benstoneham]

We are using some of the new Sylvania Britespot HID (Metal Halide) Lamps in a house we are doing right now.

They are rated 36 watts @100 V -(they use a transformer/ balast) but putting a clamp across them they come out at about .2 A from memory.

They kick out a HUGE amount of high quality (nice colour rendering and temp) light though.. massively more than a 50Watt GU10 (subjectively perhaps 4-6 times as much) and the lamps are the same size as GU10s (although the fittings we are using from JCC are a little bigger).

1 of these is sufficient to light a 3x3 bedroom no problem at all.

They are also available in a range of beam widths and colours and run (relatively) cool.

Downside? Yeah.. you guessed it.. they ain't cheap (£20 or so if you buy bulk for the lamps), around £60 for the fittings... and I don't know how they are going to wear domestic use (turned on/ off more frequently than would be the case in a commercial env.).

Half-life is quoted at 6,000 hours though, so they will last a while (I haven't worked out the saving/ cost however).

The other problem with HID of course is that the won't restrike when hot They also take 30 secs to warm up to full output - to address the need for instant light, we are using a couple of GU10s with 7w CFs in each room.

Cost aside they are worth checking out.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There's a lot of disparaging nonsense on this board about ELV downlighters. They may not be very efficient but they provide a clean, crisp light and an uncluttered look.

Which is precisely why they are disparaged. And it's not nonsense.

 

[Observer]

There's a lot of disparaging nonsense on this board about ELV downlighters. They may not be very efficient but they provide a clean, crisp light and an uncluttered look.

Which is precisely why they are disparaged. And it's not nonsense.

RULE 1) No downlighters.

RULE 2) Fire-retarding hoods or luminaires are only required if the ceiling is a fire compartment barrier, which unless your house has more than 2 storeys will only be the case if it's between a garage and a room.

RULE 3) No downlighters.

RULE 4) AFAIK, the noise regulations only apply to new-builds.

RULE 5) No downlighters.

RULE 6) There is no rule 6.

RULE 7) No downlighters.

That IS nonsense (childish babbling if you prefer). Or is it your idea of reasoned comment and criticism?