Downlights - lath plaster - Firehoods.

[holmslaw]

..

 

[xr4x4]

nope, wouldnt be asking otherwise.

loft insulation is flammable or not and 'fire rated' (as per link in my first post) downlights need protection or they dont.

 

[dingbat]

loft insulation is flammable or not and 'fire rated' (as per link in my first post) downlights need protection or they dont.

You really should not be doing this work.

You don't know enough to realise just how much you don't know, which is a potentially dangerous 'little bit of knowledge'.

(Only stating the unwelcome truth.)

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[xr4x4]

loft insulation is flammable or not and 'fire rated' (as per link in my first post) downlights need protection or they dont.

You really should not be doing this work.

You don't know enough to realise just how much you don't know, which is a potentially dangerous 'little bit of knowledge'.

(Only stating the unwelcome truth.)

im not doing the work, but having trouble getting the elecy to come back, as he is busy.

but i still need answers for the client.

thanks for your helpful post anyway.

 

[xr4x4]

nope, wouldnt be asking otherwise.

loft insulation is flammable or not and 'fire rated' (as per link in my first post) downlights need protection or they dont.

Most heat emitting items are designed to have a certain amount of free air around them to dissipate the heat given off. If you wrap them in insulation they can overheat and either catch fire or set fire to any surrounding combustible materials eg ceiling joists or laths.

You need to familiarise yourself with section 559 of the regs.

thank you, that was exactly what i needed to know.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

customer wants GU10 downlights,

And I want to drive a Ferrari with Claudia Schiffer naked in the passenger seat.

as im guessing that all standard loft insulation is flamable.

FFS.

...and the usefulness of that post was?

1) To drive home the concept of how foolish it is to assume that just wanting something is enough to mean that you can have it.

2) To express my incredulity and sudden realisation that maybe you should not be allowed out unaccompanied or allowed to have sharp objects.

 

[xr4x4]

customer wants GU10 downlights,

And I want to drive a Ferrari with Claudia Schiffer naked in the passenger seat.

as im guessing that all standard loft insulation is flamable.

FFS.

...and the usefulness of that post was?

1) To drive home the concept of how foolish it is to assume that just wanting something is enough to mean that you can have it.

2) To express my incredulity and sudden realisation that maybe you should not be allowed out unaccompanied or allowed to have sharp objects.

ive always given you benefit of the doubt, knowing you can be a dick and rub people up the wrong way.. normally they deserve it.

i feel your comments where unjust, unnecessary and unfair.

youve just made it personal.

 

[delboybully]

This is typical of ban-all-sheds. He can be extremely unhelpful and sometimes downright rude.

Instead of answering questions he usually says 'regulation this, do you know about this' when it would be nicer if he answered questions. Its like he expects you to know the answer, but if you knew the answer why would you post in gthe first place. I believe there is no such thing as a stupid question, but there are stupid people who don't ask questions.

As my mother says 'if you've got nothing nice to say, then say nothing'. This applies to ban-all-sheds more than to anyone i have come across

I don't know why he volunteers his time to post on here if he isn't going to helpful!

I moderate on a forum and i wouldn't dream of talking to people like ban-all-sheds does. In fact we pride ourselves on being friendly and rude people get a warning and then a ban!!!!!

 

[krisdorey]

This is typical of ban-all-sheds. He can be extremely unhelpful and sometimes downright rude.

Instead of answering questions he usually says 'regulation this, do you know about this' when it would be nicer if he answered questions. Its like he expects you to know the answer, but if you knew the answer why would you post in gthe first place. I believe there is no such thing as a stupid question, but there are stupid people who don't ask questions.

there are also stupid people who ask sensible questions and sensible people who ask stupid questions.

As my mother says 'if you've got nothing nice to say, then say nothing'. This applies to ban-all-sheds more than to anyone i have come across

I don't know why he volunteers his time to post on here if he isn't going to helpful!

I moderate on a forum and i wouldn't dream of talking to people like ban-all-sheds does. In fact we pride ourselves on being friendly and rude people get a warning and then a ban!!!!!

Does this forum you moderate contain people asking questions and people offering advice that have life threatening consequences?

I also moderate several forums, upwards of 250,000+ users in some cases, and even in these forums that don't have dire consequences for wrong advice we would still view BAS as "abrasive" rather than "abusive".

BAS has a positive effect on the DIYnot forums even if his way of presenting facts to someone is somewhat less than "bend over backwards courteous"

BAS is actually doing people a favour when he quotes x,y,z regs. It should do one of two things

1. If the person is reasonably competent then they will realise that there is more than meets the eye to a given electrical circuit or problem and will research using the links BAS provides.

2. If the person is reasonably intelligent but it not competent then they will realise that its far easier and ultimately cheaper to get someone whos speciality is electrical circuits/problems in to resolve their issue.

or else a third happens

3. The person blindly thinks that they know better then the regulations which for the by and large have been put in place by people with the experience to know better (IET for example).

Don't get me wrong, BAS is quite a character and he might not always conform to the "nice helpful guy" persona, but he gets the point across. You are dealing with something which can be very dangerous if you dont fully understand it (and even if you do!), better someone gets annoyed by BAS but then gets someone qualified in upon not understanding the various regs he points to then we all act nicely nicely and people take hap-hazard approaches.

But then,as a relative newbie, I dont need to defend BAS. I just like his character and what he is trying to, whether you view it right or wrong, ultimately convey to the end user.

 

[delboybully]

customer wants GU10 downlights,

And I want to drive a Ferrari with Claudia Schiffer naked in the passenger seat.

as im guessing that all standard loft insulation is flamable.

FFS.

...and the usefulness of that post was?

1) To drive home the concept of how foolish it is to assume that just wanting something is enough to mean that you can have it.

2) To express my incredulity and sudden realisation that maybe you should not be allowed out unaccompanied or allowed to have sharp objects.

You would call point 2 'abrasive', sorry but thats abusive and rude! Say that in a pub to a stranger and you will get thumped!!!!

Quoting regs is a good idea, but you know what its like going through these type of things, it would be easier to point people in the right direction that to just say read the regs!!!! There are two ways to tell someone that they might be taking on more than they can cope with, being pleasant is a better way. If you just say to someone that they cant do it, too complicated etc will just drive them away and then they may attempt the job and it may end up dangerous. At least by helping it may be safe

I have found DIYnot.com to be a most helpful site when i have questions or problems EXCEPT the electric section. When i asked for advice on wiring my extensiin i got the usual, not qualified etc. So i gave up and searched the web for the answers, wired up my extension, building control checked the cable runs, got a sparky to install a new consumer unit and test the system. Bingo extension passed. Ban-all-sheds was his usual self. Unhelpful and even took the mickey because i put thanks in my first post. Interestingly when i updated the post to say i had completed the wiring in my extension succesfully Ban-all-sheds said nothing

Ban-all-sheds may be a character all right- just not a nice one!!!!

 

[krisdorey]

Having read the thread in question which I assume was

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248344&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

then BAS response, whilst more lengthy just re-iterated what the other experienced electricians had to say. A number of them advised you involving a qualified electrician at the design phase and also advised that an electrician cannot sign off on someone elses work.

BAs quoted chapter and verse but actually the links he gave are basic reading for any DIY'er as they describe electrical theory and design that most DIY'ers don't think of.

It was best illustrated when a quote (not from BAS) was well done but you happen to be in the minority in how you approached (ultimately) your work.

In my linke of work, Id rather someone shouted at me when I was potentially going to do something stupid then wrap me up in cotton wool and hope I got it right!

 

[xr4x4]

BAS is quite a character

really? not the words id use.

thanks delboybully for your comments.

 

[xr4x4]

BAs quoted chapter and verse but actually the links he gave are basic reading for any DIY'er as they describe electrical theory and design that most DIY'ers don't think of.

copy and paste you mean?

 

[delboybully]

Have deleted the post mod 8