Quick question for anyone out there - is there an alternative mid-position Actuator which will fit onto a Drayton MA1 3-port valve, and which I can just fit onto the valve after removing the possibly problematic actuator currently in place?
Drayton MA1 3-port valve
- Thread starter reluctanthandyman1
- Start date
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No There isn't mate I'm afraid, but my money is still on a wiring issue
right, where were we?
ok turn both stats up and turn both central heating and hot water on at the programmer
where does the valve move to?
Matt
right, where were we?
ok turn both stats up and turn both central heating and hot water on at the programmer
where does the valve move to?
Matt
Hello again Matt.
Sorry for the delay but have been working nights since 23rd. Am due to go in again later.
Right.
Have been fortunate enough to have been able to closely observe this "glitch" on my system early yesterday evening when it happened yet again.
I noted that the hot water was again running extremely hot (well above the temperature set for it on the cylinder stat).
I opened the airing cupboard and, sure enough, the 3-port was again in mid-position.
I then turned the room stat right down (heard it "click" as I did so). I then turned the CH to the "off" position at the programmer. The 3-port remained at mid-position. The boiler continued to fire away.
I then turned the HW to the "off " position on the programmer.
The 3-port again remained at the mid-position - and the boiler STILL continued to fire away!
I then noted that the "kick-space " heater in the kitchen (which is part of the CH system) continued to keep going - and kept on going (this heater normally would switch off about 5 minutes after the CH had reached its "satisfied" temperature setting as per the room stat's setting.
This obviously signifies that the CH is still actively being heated by the boiler as well as the HW - even though both have been switched to the "off" position at the programmer!!
I then went down to the boiler and switched it off at the mains spur switch.
The 3-port then immediately reset itself to its rest position by the "W" position. When I then switched the boiler back on again everything reverted to Normal operation (thankfully yet frustratingly!).
SO - to sum up....... CH and HW continue to "call" for heat from the boiler in spite of both the room stat AND the cylinder stat having reached their respective required temperature settings.
Both stats are effectively being by-passed/ignored by the boiler, which continues to fire away and heating up both CH and HW.
As I said earlier, Matt, this is happening only intermittently - once a day.
Which I must say is causing me some confusion - why is it only intermittent? Why is it not happening all the time?
As you rightly, I think, pointed out earlier, it doesn't appear to be a fault with the 3-port. I have watched it closely and it seems to be moving quite smoothly between its W, M and H positions (except when this fault arises, when it stops at M - althogh it appears to be electrically "signalled" to stop there rather than being "stuck" there). It does indeed appear to be mechanically okay.
I have an experienced heating engineer coming out on Monday morning to deal with this issue. Hopefully he will be able to dignose what's wrong and fix it. Like you, I reckon it's a wiring fault rather than a 3-port fault. But I would appreciate your thoughts on what you reckon it most probably is before he gets here, so that I can maybe point him in the right direction.
Would I be right in saying that if he knows his stuff he should be able to figure out what the problem is without too much trouble?
And tell me why it has been happeniing only intermittently?
Best wishes.
John.
Sorry for the delay but have been working nights since 23rd. Am due to go in again later.
Right.
Have been fortunate enough to have been able to closely observe this "glitch" on my system early yesterday evening when it happened yet again.
I noted that the hot water was again running extremely hot (well above the temperature set for it on the cylinder stat).
I opened the airing cupboard and, sure enough, the 3-port was again in mid-position.
I then turned the room stat right down (heard it "click" as I did so). I then turned the CH to the "off" position at the programmer. The 3-port remained at mid-position. The boiler continued to fire away.
I then turned the HW to the "off " position on the programmer.
The 3-port again remained at the mid-position - and the boiler STILL continued to fire away!
I then noted that the "kick-space " heater in the kitchen (which is part of the CH system) continued to keep going - and kept on going (this heater normally would switch off about 5 minutes after the CH had reached its "satisfied" temperature setting as per the room stat's setting.
This obviously signifies that the CH is still actively being heated by the boiler as well as the HW - even though both have been switched to the "off" position at the programmer!!
I then went down to the boiler and switched it off at the mains spur switch.
The 3-port then immediately reset itself to its rest position by the "W" position. When I then switched the boiler back on again everything reverted to Normal operation (thankfully yet frustratingly!).
SO - to sum up....... CH and HW continue to "call" for heat from the boiler in spite of both the room stat AND the cylinder stat having reached their respective required temperature settings.
Both stats are effectively being by-passed/ignored by the boiler, which continues to fire away and heating up both CH and HW.
As I said earlier, Matt, this is happening only intermittently - once a day.
Which I must say is causing me some confusion - why is it only intermittent? Why is it not happening all the time?
As you rightly, I think, pointed out earlier, it doesn't appear to be a fault with the 3-port. I have watched it closely and it seems to be moving quite smoothly between its W, M and H positions (except when this fault arises, when it stops at M - althogh it appears to be electrically "signalled" to stop there rather than being "stuck" there). It does indeed appear to be mechanically okay.
I have an experienced heating engineer coming out on Monday morning to deal with this issue. Hopefully he will be able to dignose what's wrong and fix it. Like you, I reckon it's a wiring fault rather than a 3-port fault. But I would appreciate your thoughts on what you reckon it most probably is before he gets here, so that I can maybe point him in the right direction.
Would I be right in saying that if he knows his stuff he should be able to figure out what the problem is without too much trouble?
And tell me why it has been happeniing only intermittently?
Best wishes.
John.
hello again
He needs to investigate the control side of the valve, and yes he should be able to sus it I would have thought
could you post a pic with the wiring centre? (with the cover off)
did you try this?(make sure the valve is at rest first)
where does the valve move to, mid or to heating?
He needs to investigate the control side of the valve, and yes he should be able to sus it I would have thought
could you post a pic with the wiring centre? (with the cover off)
did you try this?(make sure the valve is at rest first)
where does the valve move to, mid or to heating?
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If it were a wiring fault, it would not be intermittent; it would work or not. Change the head and the fault will go away, until the next one fails. These are not the most reliable valves.
I beg to differ oilhead
the valve returns to hot water when all power is removed for a start
I've come across lots of "intermittent" electrical faults over the years too
Matt
Matt.
I did try turning HW on and CH on and turning both stats up - the valve went (as it should do) to mid-position. Boiler fires up to heat both "channels" (as it should do).
I will try and get my daughter to help me upload a pic of the wiring in the terminal centre as you've requested.
She's not here at the mo, though. I'm afraid I don't have a clue how to do that myself - showing my age!
One thought which is nagging at me - could the programmer be the rogue element here? I mean in the way in which it's wired up to the other components. It's just that I don't understand how the HW and CH can be switched to the "off" position on the programmer and yet both HW and CH will continue to be heated up by the boiler - with the 2 temperature-controlling stats being rendered completely impotent when this glitch occurs.
John.
I did try turning HW on and CH on and turning both stats up - the valve went (as it should do) to mid-position. Boiler fires up to heat both "channels" (as it should do).
I will try and get my daughter to help me upload a pic of the wiring in the terminal centre as you've requested.
She's not here at the mo, though. I'm afraid I don't have a clue how to do that myself - showing my age!
One thought which is nagging at me - could the programmer be the rogue element here? I mean in the way in which it's wired up to the other components. It's just that I don't understand how the HW and CH can be switched to the "off" position on the programmer and yet both HW and CH will continue to be heated up by the boiler - with the 2 temperature-controlling stats being rendered completely impotent when this glitch occurs.
John.
no its doubtful as the stats are in series with the programmer
if the valve is being electrically held in mid position then it is receiving power on the white, plus when it is in this position then the boiler cant fire via the valve alone, it receives its call via the cylinder stat
a quick visual of the wiring centre might reveal something amiss
valve white, grey, and orange should all be in separate terminals
one other cable should be in with the white
two other cables should be in with the gray
two or three other cables should be in with the orange
Its getting close to multimeter req time methinks
Methinks you're right - I have to get set for work right now.
I will let you know how it is resolved after the professional has been to look at it.
This whole thing might be of help to someone else in the future if they get a similar problem.
In the meantime - Thank you so much for your interest and your help.
It is much appreciated.
John.
I will let you know how it is resolved after the professional has been to look at it.
This whole thing might be of help to someone else in the future if they get a similar problem.
In the meantime - Thank you so much for your interest and your help.
It is much appreciated.
John.
One last question - Can you explain why this is an intermittent fault rather than a constant one? I can't quite get my head round why it happens on only an occasional basis. What exactly causes this sort of fault to make its presence felt only now and again? Is it possible to explain in layman's terms?
It will be a fault on the pcb in the valve. When you take all power off, it 'spring returns'. When you switch on, it works until you change the feeds. The pcb is keeping a feed on your heating wire and making the valve malfunction. As I said previously, it has probably suffered from a high ambient temperature. Is the valve installed with the actuator vertically above the valve body? Is the airing cupboard well filled with linen?
Yes - that's correct.
But the valve which is currently in place was fitted only 7-8 weeks ago. Surely it has to be more robust than that - otherwise there would be an epidemic of these valves going faulty in that way. Most people have their 3-port valves working in exactly this sort of confined environment in an airing cupboard - don't they?
But the valve which is currently in place was fitted only 7-8 weeks ago. Surely it has to be more robust than that - otherwise there would be an epidemic of these valves going faulty in that way. Most people have their 3-port valves working in exactly this sort of confined environment in an airing cupboard - don't they?
I hadn't read that this is only 7 -8 weeks old. Two possibilities are rogue feed from the HW off on the programmer, or more likely, the cylinder thermostat giving a feed out on both demand and satisfied terminals. This can occur intermittently depending on the temperature of your cylinder.
Appreciate the input, sir.
Would you therefore be broadly in agreement with Matt1e that the most certain way to get to the bottom of this is a thorough testing of all circuits and components with a multi-meter and that this will most likely reveal the source of the problem?
John.
Would you therefore be broadly in agreement with Matt1e that the most certain way to get to the bottom of this is a thorough testing of all circuits and components with a multi-meter and that this will most likely reveal the source of the problem?
John.
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