Earth to stop cock bonding

[houseofzane]

At the side of my house I have a lean too and many years ago my Dad installed all the electrics. He added an additional bit of work that was going to be a single socket for a heater but we decided on not having a heater in the room so he put a fuse spur socket on it.
I was wondering as this isn’t being used if I could remove the section now but I’m not sure if I can. The cable comes from my consumer unit and goes to the fuse spur. But he also ran an earth cable from my stop cock to the fuse spur.
I know you need your water bonded but I already have 1 earth to it so was wondering if this second one could be removed or is it just a waste of time and leave it as it is. Unfortunately my Dad is no longer around to ask.
Just after a bit of advice on this really

 

[ebee]

But he also ran an earth cable from my stop cock to the fuse spur.

Can you draw us a diagram showing the cable, the stop cock and pipework (is it metal or plastic) and the fused connection unit (I assume that is what you are describing as a "fuse spur") please, thanks. I am trying to establish if this is a main stop cock for the house or a separate one purely for the lean too but connected to the same pipework running underground and therefore requiring bonding so instead he has run an earthwire as an equalising conductor. Thanks.

 

[houseofzane]

The pipework is all metal and it’s linked to the main stopcock in the house. Yes it’s a fused connection unit that he told me we could swap to a single socket if I wanted

 

[ebee]

Yes, it sounds like he took the precaution of adding that earthwire as an equalising conductor to reduce risks. Essentially, in simple terms. to ensure the earth as presented at the socket, connection unit or appliance will always be at the same polarity as the pipework .
That might sound odd but in all installations we try to ensure that anything that is "earthed" is always at the same electrical potential, so the ground beneat our feet and the metal case of an appliance is always at the same (or almost the same) voltage , any doubt that it always will be is mitigated by the addition of an equalising conductor, it is known as bonding, we bond all things together, electrically, to make them substantially at the same polarity.
He probably decided that despite it should really be main bonding requiring say running a 10.0mm earth cable from the house earth bar to the water stop cock it should, in practice, be sufficient to run a supplementary earthwire from the socket/FCU earth to the stopcock.
In reality it probably would do so if it is substantial enough for those limited purposes. If not and you stood barefoot (and maybe wet) on the stopcock or connected pipework and the metal case of an appliance or socket at the same time you could get an electric shock from the differences of voltage between them, if they are both connected by a conductor then that should reduce that voltage to nearly zero therefore safe to touch both at the same time.
Like I said it should really be connected by a big thick cable but (without actually seeing it) I would probably not be too worried about it and all other things being equal so to speak it is probably doing no harm and might be doing some good.

 

[houseofzane]

Appreciate your help
The conduit and stuff he used is in the way of a sliding door I wanted to fit but I think it might be best if I rethink the plan.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Can you draw us a diagram showing the cable, the stop cock and pipework (is it metal or plastic) and the fused connection unit (I assume that is what you are describing as a "fuse spur") please, thanks. I am trying to establish if this is a main stop cock for the house or a separate one purely for the lean too but connected to the same pipework running underground and therefore requiring bonding so instead he has run an earthwire as an equalising conductor. Thanks.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just to make the point as a lot of people make the mistake of thinking the stop-cock is somehow related to the subject of bonding.

It is not; the stop-cock is irrelevant and just happens to usually be in the same location.

It is the metal pipe emerging from the ground which (probably) requires bonding.

 

[ebee]

Just to make the point as a lot of people make the mistake of thinking the stop-cock is somehow related to the subject of bonding.

It is not; the stop-cock is irrelevant and just happens to usually be in the same location.

It is the metal pipe emerging from the ground which (probably) requires bonding.

Yes ELFI you are absolutely correct.I was merely attempting to keep it simple, but basically any and all conductive metal and that includes anything connected to it electrically must be made to be equalised to each other and our main earthing terminal , we pick a place at or near where it enters the zone we are attempting to connect such items and before any branches or tees if possible, that way everyone has a good idea where it might actually be and we are also working on the basis that anything is likely to be at another voltage where it enters because it travels thru the earth unseen.

So, if we believe that pipework enters at a stop tap that enters the property and supplies pipework to much of that property then travels further underground say to additional stop tap or three then all of them must be bonded at every place near entry into the premises at every place into that property and, moreover, they could actually be different supplies of water of water or whatever into that property.
Again, the important thing is the aim of equalising everything.


Rather pedantic of me to explain that perhaps but I would not, personally, worry too much if the info given by the OP is what I am visualising it to actually be in real life. Of course I might be wrong in that visualisation.

If we could see the whole of the pipework laying half in half out of the ground en route from 1, 2 , 3 or 10 different places we might decide that if someone only bonded it in one or two distinct places that it would effectively be bonded and no further bonds are needed really.
Ask ten different electricians and you`d get eleven different answers

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes ELFI you are absolutely correct.I was merely attempting to keep it simple,

I wasn't referring to you. See thread title.

but basically any and all conductive metal and that includes anything connected to it electrically must be made to be equalised to each other and our main earthing terminal , we pick a place at or near where it enters the zone we are attempting to connect such items and before any branches or tees if possible, that way everyone has a good idea where it might actually be and we are also working on the basis that anything is likely to be at another voltage where it enters because it travels thru the earth unseen.

Maybe.

So, if we believe that pipework enters at a stop tap that enters the property and supplies pipework to much of that property then travels further underground say to additional stop tap or three then all of them must be bonded at every place near entry into the premises at every place into that property and, moreover, they could actually be different supplies of water of water or whatever into that property.
Again, the important thing is the aim of equalising everything.

FFS - It's NOTHING to do with stop-taps.

Rather pedantic of me to explain that perhaps but I would not, personally, worry too much if the info given by the OP is what I am visualising it to actually be in real life. Of course I might be wrong in that visualisation.

If we could see the whole of the pipework laying half in half out of the ground en route from 1, 2 , 3 or 10 different places we might decide that if someone only bonded it in one or two distinct places that it would effectively be bonded and no further bonds are needed really.

Maybe.

Ask ten different electricians and you`d get eleven different answers

Not if they are correct.

 

[SUNRAY]

Not if they are correct.

The big problem is hey may all be correct, or indeed all wrong.

It wasn't tat long ago I came across a circuit earthed to a pipe rather than the FB/CU and this almost sounds like a similar situation..

 

[ebee]

FFS - It's NOTHING to do with stop-taps

depends upon what you term stop taps and stop cocks and where they are and what they perform, Any piece on conductive material than can pick up a potential (usually earth potential) will need bonding, presence or absence of stop taps or cocks is not relevant . But if it has one it is uaually just after it enters the area in the installation that it enters;

Cock

 

[pete01]

What if a metal pipe comes out the ground and theres no stop cock/tap, does that need bonding......lol.

 

[EFLImpudence]

depends upon what you term stop taps and stop cocks and where they are and what they perform, Any piece on conductive material than can pick up a potential (usually earth potential) will need bonding, presence or absence of stop taps or cocks is not relevant . But if it has one it is uaually just after it enters the area in the installation that it enters;

What are you on about?

 

[ebee]

What if a metal pipe comes out the ground and theres no stop cock/tap, does that need bonding......lol.

yes, if it comes out of the ground it needs bonding even if you might reasonably believe that it is another branch of one that is already bonded as it came out of the ground a few/ a lot of metres away.

 

[ebee]

What are you on about?

if it comes out of the ground it needs bonding, any stop tap etc is not relevant just like you said