earthed or not, new boiler

[marierachelgregory]

Just had help link at my house. For New boiler fitted, electrician says we haven't got earth to the house, I have put a picture on of my electric box, if anyone could please look at it please, and if I need to get my house earthed how much does it cost, thanks

 

[JohnW2]

Here's the picture:

earthednor unearthed

• marierachelgregory
• 27 Aug 2013
• 1

How do I tell of my house is earthed

There appears to be some earth wiring there - but what, if anything, it is connected to does not seem clear. I would not have thought that getting an electrician to look into it and sort it out would cost too much.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

You need to contact your local district network operator, they will give you a price.
Could did the electrician to confirm that you have no earth by test or visual. Do you live in a remote location?
DNO charge about (regional variations) £210.00 for earth connection.

 

[JohnW2]

You need to contact your local district network operator, they will give you a price. Could be worth contacting a local electrician to confirm that you have no earthing arrangement, did the boiler engineer actual test for an earth? Do you live in a remote location? DNO charge about (regional variations) £210.00 for earth connection.

Maybe - but I don't think they are under any obligation to (indeed, may not be in a position to) provide an earth (even at a price) if they never have done so. If they have previously provided an earth, I think they have a responsibility to 'maintain' it, at no cost to the consumer. However, it could, for example, be a TT installation which has lost the connection to its electrode. As we've both said, it would probably make sense to first get an electrician to ascertain what the situation with the installation is. (S)he would also probably know about the siutuation regarding the DNO in the locality.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Maybe - but I don't think they are under any obligation to (indeed, may not be in a position to) provide an earth (even at a price)

This is true, but without contacting them you will not find this information out

If they have previously provided an earth, I think they have a responsibility to 'maintain' it, at no cost to the consumer.

again true, but without contacting the DNO or having documentations verifying earth type/connection, you will not find this out.

However, it could, for example, be a TT installation which has lost the connection to its electrode.

Could be but the lack of rcd protection shown on picture, would suggest otherwise.

As we've both said, it would probably make sense to first get an electrician to ascertain what the situation with the installation is. (S)he would also probably know about the situation
regarding the DNO in the locality.

I edited my original reply, as seems it was an electrician that made this discovery. But would like to know whether by test or visual or both.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe - but I don't think they are under any obligation to (indeed, may not be in a position to) provide an earth (even at a price)

This is true, but without contacting them you will not find this information out

If they have previously provided an earth, I think they have a responsibility to 'maintain' it, at no cost to the consumer.

again true, but without contacting the DNO or having documentations verifying earth type/connection, you will not find this out.

All true. However, there is no evidence of a TN-S earth and no PME stickers. The one thing I'm unsure about is what is in the top right-hand bit of the cutout housing - is it possible that there is an (unused) TN-C-S earth terminal in there? If there had previously been a TN-S or TN-C-S earth, presumably the DNO would have provided some sort of earth when they replaced the cutout (seemingly not too many decades ago)?

However, it could, for example, be a TT installation which has lost the connection to its electrode.

Could be but the lack of rcd protection shown on picture, would suggest otherwise.

Maybe, but given the vintage of the small CU (and no real evidence that much has been done to the installation for a very long time), it would not surprise me if it had been a TT installation without any RCD protection. Would it surprise you?

I edited my original reply, as seems it was an electrician that made this discovery. But would like to know whether by test or visual or both.

Yes, it would be good to know that - but that presumably was the 'boiler electrician', who no longer has any interest/involvement. If it were you or me, we would be able to ascertain what was going on (by inspection and/or testing) and hence decide whether to contact the DNO (and, if so, what to tell/ask them). For the OP, I am still inclined to think that it would probably be best to get an electrician to ascertain 'what is going on' before contacting the DNO, but that's just my view!

Kind Regards, John

 

[RF Lighting]

Top right of the cutout is just the neutral block, and the cable looks too small to be split con, so with the lack of PME sticker, and lack of connection, I'd say the DNO have not provided an earth.

It does look as though there's some sort of MET, and maybe 2.5mm² main earth which would suggest a TT install, but the lack of RCD is worrying if this is the case.

 

[JohnW2]

Top right of the cutout is just the neutral block,...

That's what I would have expected but (maybe it's just the picture), the neutral tail doesn't seem to be coming from there - hence my question.

... and the cable looks too small to be split con, so with the lack of PME sticker, and lack of connection, I'd say the DNO have not provided an earth. It does look as though there's some sort of MET, and maybe 2.5mm² main earth which would suggest a TT install, ...

Indeed, that's what I was suggesting.

...but the lack of RCD is worrying if this is the case.

Sure - but, as I said, given that it looks as if the installation may well not have been touched for a few decades, that's perhaps not necessarily surprising, even though worrying. I suppose it's worth remembering that TT installations were common for many decades before even VOELCBs, let alone current-operated RCDs, showed their faces. I certainly survived a childhood and adolesence living with such an installation!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

I went to an old cottage in the Peak District that had survived for many years on TT with 3036's and no form of earth leakage protection at all.

There wasn't even a rod, or bonding for that matter. The earth wire ran up the garden and was pushed into the lawn...

The Ze was, unsurprisingly, 1936 Ohms, on a good day.

So, it could well be TT with no RCD and possibly no bonding to boot. The DNO may well refuse to install PME, leaving the only option to install a rod PEB's and RCD, which would not be to standard, or a replacement board.

 

[JohnW2]

I went to an old cottage in the Peak District that had survived for many years on TT with 3036's and no form of earth leakage protection at all. There wasn't even a rod, or bonding for that matter. The earth wire ran up the garden and was pushed into the lawn... The Ze was, unsurprisingly, 1936 Ohms, on a good day.

Quite. I've seen many an installation like that (although most do still have a connection to some sort of rod), and I don't doubt that there are still some out there. In the pic we've seen, there does seem to be an earth wire which goes somewhere, so it could be connected to a rod - but, if so, I see no other things which could be bonding conductors. Indeed, if there is no rod and that one cable is bonding, that bonding might represent the intallation's only connection to earth.

So, it could well be TT with no RCD and possibly no bonding to boot. The DNO may well refuse to install PME, leaving the only option to install a rod PEB's and RCD, which would not be to standard, or a replacement board.

Indeed. As I said, if the DNO had ever provided an earth, I would have expected there to be some evidence that they continued to provided some earth when they changed the cutout (evidence of which I can't see) - which is why my money would be on it always having been a TT supply (with or without a rod and bonding, certainly without an RCD).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I went to an old cottage in the Peak District that had survived for many years on TT with 3036's and no form of earth leakage protection at all.

There wasn't even a rod, or bonding for that matter. The earth wire ran up the garden and was pushed into the lawn...

The Ze was, unsurprisingly, 1936 Ohms, on a good day.

Not all bad - something like that might well have saved my life some years ago.

 

[JohnW2]

The Ze was, unsurprisingly, 1936 Ohms, on a good day.

Not all bad - something like that might well have saved my life some years ago.

Well, yes. If one could eliminate extraneous-c-ps, then in many situations an earth-free environment (i.e. 'infinite' Ze) would be the 'safest' situation. However, it would leave any L-CPC faults within the installation undetected and uncleared - which doesn't sound/feel nice, even if it theoretically would not present a risk to persons in a truly earth-free environment. However, with a few specialised exceptions, such an environment is obviously not usually attainable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ah - but if the fault path is L - arm - chest - other arm - E, (and no RCD), it certainly doesn't feel nice, but a substantial Ze does help it to remain merely briefly unpleasant.

 

[JohnW2]

Ah - but if the fault path is L - arm - chest - other arm - E, (and no RCD), it certainly doesn't feel nice, but a substantial Ze does help it to remain merely briefly unpleasant.

Yes, I understood that's what you meant, and I agree that a very high Ze will at least mitigate the effects in that situation. However, I was commenting that an earth-free (or, at least, very high Ze) environment would mean that exposed-conductive parts could rise to line voltage as a result of an L-CPC or L-exposed-c-p fault (in wiring or equipment, not via a human body) which would not be detected or cleared by anything - so that situation would persist unless/until discovered and rectified 'by chance'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh indeed - I'm not suggesting that in the absence of RCDs we should have high Ze installations as a way to protect idiots who grab hold of a live thing with one hand and an earthed thing with the other.