Economics.

[Notch7]

Is defence spending Socialism? You raise taxes and then spend it without having a say in how it's spent.

Err no, in a democratic society you elect politicians and hold them accountable for how they spend the money.

 

[SirGalahad]

'You don't need to concoct ideas of zero sum games to discuss inequality'

Exactly -which is the point Im making.

zero sum game concept does not hold true in real life and therefore cannot be used as a valid argument for inequality.



Exactly. All economies are mixed. Mixed economies dont fit the model of a zero sum game

I am not countering any idea that social injustice does not exist, it does. The concept that it is due to a zero sum game model is not true.

I am weary of using terms as social injustice but I suspect you mean the effects of increasing inequaliy?

 

[Notch7]

I am weary of using terms as social injustice but I suspect you mean the effects of increasing inequaliy?

I guess its the current jargon.

So are we all now in agreement that 'zero sum game' is not true in the real world?

Nobody has provided an answer to how GDP can increase in a zero sum economy.

 

[Doggit]

You need to import cheaply, and export expensively to be able to increase GDP in a zeero sum economy, but it could then be argued that you've cheated the concetpt of a zero sum economy. Or the government has to borrow money to increase GDP.

 

[SirGalahad]

I guess its the current jargon.

So are we all now in agreement that 'zero sum game' is not true in the real world?

Nobody has provided an answer to how GDP can increase in a zero sum economy.

I think whats happened is someone in this debate has confused a zero sum game in economics with a zero sum economic system. Finance when you enter into binary trades is a pure example of zero sum game. If I enter into options with a counter party - one of us will make money at the expense of the other.

 

[Notch7]

I think whats happened is someone in this debate has confused a zero sum game in economics with a zero sum economic system. Finance when you enter into binary trades is a pure example of zero sum game. If I enter into options with a counter party - one of us will make money at the expense of the other.

Hurrah, sombody has finally realised, real world economies are not zero sum.

 

[SirGalahad]

Hurrah, sombody has finally realised, real world economies are not zero sum.

You referring to me?

 

[SirGalahad]

Hurrah, sombody has finally realised, real world economies are not zero sum.

However real world trade imbalances are a zero sum game.

 

[Notch7]

However real world trade imbalances are a zero sum game.

The FT would beg to differ:

'The theory of zero-sum games was developed by the mathematician John von Neumann and the economist Oskar Morgenstern in their famous book published in 1944. It works fine for analysing chess and poker, but by itself zero-sum thinking is not much use to an economist who analyses a world full of win-win situations, of gains from trade.'

An over simplification of real world situations. Trumps protectionist view of world trade has been roundly criticised as not beneficial long term for economic growth of US.

 

[SirGalahad]

The FT would beg to differ:

'The theory of zero-sum games was developed by the mathematician John von Neumann and the economist Oskar Morgenstern in their famous book published in 1944. It works fine for analysing chess and poker, but by itself zero-sum thinking is not much use to an economist who analyses a world full of win-win situations, of gains from trade.'

An over simplification of real world situations. Trumps protectionist view of world trade has been roundly criticised as not beneficial long term for economic growth of US.

My word. Do you even understand what you are quoting.

That is talking about the gains from trade. I said trade imbalance ie referring to trade deficits and surpluses which by their very nature must net off.

Lets start talking about leontief paradox. You just googled some terms and then came up with a quote and think well there you go.

 

[chris1982]

The FT would beg to differ:

'The theory of zero-sum games was developed by the mathematician John von Neumann and the economist Oskar Morgenstern in their famous book published in 1944. It works fine for analysing chess and poker, but by itself zero-sum thinking is not much use to an economist who analyses a world full of win-win situations, of gains from trade.'

An over simplification of real world situations. Trumps protectionist view of world trade has been roundly criticised as not beneficial long term for economic growth of US.

That quote is not referring to trade between countries but between any group of people. Do you suggest each of us becomes self sufficient, I.e hunter-gatherers again?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

However real world trade imbalances are a zero sum game.

Could you expand on this?

 

[SirGalahad]

Are you suggesting that for a country to export it must necessarily also import?

See my post above - on a global level trade surpluses and deficits will net off.