Economy 10 problems

[Riumdmas]

Hi all,

I have recently moved into a rented flat and am having trouble with both by immersion water heating and my electric underfloor heating. My landlord's electrician has not filled me with confidence that he knows what he is talking about so I am hoping someone here may be able to arm me with some better info to go back to the landlord with.

Here's what I know:

The flat is connected to an eon heatwise meter which is an eon-specific economy 10 meter. It means that i have two feeds for the flat - one designed for hot water and central heating and one for other energy consumption. Both have different on and off peak times and rates.

The feed from the water/heating meter is disconnected so all electricity consumption is recorded on the second feed, including the immersion heater and heating unit.

The immersion heater is controlled by a grasslin eco timer. From the digging i have done online it seems to me that this controller should have some default off peak times and/or it should be governed by the eon meter in terms of knowing when the off peak tariff kicks in. I should only have to use the manual timer if i want to turn the heater on at other peak periods. Is this right? And should the meter feed affect this?

Likewise my underfloor heating is connected to a pactrol weather watcher heating storage system. The landlord and electrician have been unable to explain how this works and i have had no end of trouble trying to moderate the temperature of the flat as a result. Is the feed likely to be causing trouble here?

Greatly appreciate any advice.

 

[JohnD]

A photo of your meter(s), consumer unit(s) timer(s) and the cables around and between them all would be a great help.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Meanwhile:

The immersion heater is controlled by a grasslin eco timer. From the digging i have done online it seems to me that this controller should have some default off peak times and/or it should be governed by the eon meter in terms of knowing when the off peak tariff kicks in. I should only have to use the manual timer if i want to turn the heater on at other peak periods. Is this right? And should the meter feed affect this?

No.

You have to set it to whatever times you want the immersion on.

To coincide with the cheaper rate times, or less, if that is all you want.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Likewise my underfloor heating is connected to a pactrol weather watcher heating storage system. The landlord and electrician have been unable to explain how this works and i have had no end of trouble trying to moderate the temperature of the flat as a result.

Can be a problem with some UFH installations. What type of floor(s) are they?

 

[ericmark]

"The flat is connected to an eon heatwise meter which is an eon-specific economy 10 meter."

Heatwise is the old name for E.ON EnergyPlan it is a tariff not a system and like economy 7 and 10 there are different methods to use it.

"It means that i have two feeds for the flat - one designed for hot water and central heating and one for other energy consumption. Both have different on and off peak times and rates.

The feed from the water/heating meter is disconnected so all electricity consumption is recorded on the second feed, including the immersion heater and heating unit."

This seems wrong, two meters one would think means two feeds, but this does not work with the timer you have. With the old economy 7 originally one had a white meter and the electric board did all the switching on and off so you only got power at night. However this resulted in having a boost set up to give you hot water if you run out often with its own heater, and you could not use the off peak power for washing machine and tumble drier. As a result there was a move away from this method. The user needed to ensure his stuff switched on and off at the correct time and he had one supply but two rates.

"The immersion heater is controlled by a grasslin eco timer. From the digging i have done online it seems to me that this controller should have some default off peak times and/or it should be governed by the eon meter in terms of knowing when the off peak tariff kicks in. I should only have to use the manual timer if i want to turn the heater on at other peak periods. Is this right? And should the meter feed affect this?"

Looking at the data sheet for the timer it only has one feed it is down to you the user to get the times correct.

"Likewise my underfloor heating is connected to a pactrol weather watcher heating storage system. The landlord and electrician have been unable to explain how this works and i have had no end of trouble trying to moderate the temperature of the flat as a result. Is the feed likely to be causing trouble here?"

The pactrol weather watcher uses an outside sensor to work out how much heat you need so the heat is switched on at the last point it can at night and still get enough energy before switch off in the morning so not over heating place at night.

However one still needs so method to control the release of energy during the day. The problem with the storage radiator is they are very poor storing energy. But using water storage it needs a load of room, using a combination of under floor and water storage can reduce the size of water store required.

Simple idea is the under floor heating removes the chill and heats house in the morning then the hot water cuts in during the evening, or using a water under floor heating it over heats floor in the morning and hopes that will keep house warm enough so the water store size is reduced.

However under floor heating using just heat over night would need a very well insulated home with heat recovery system to keep the house at 18 ~ 22 degrees as although under floor heating does store heat there is no way to control the release of that heat.

Like you I fail to understand how even the best of controllers can adjust the heat required in advance when there is no way to control the release of heat.