Economy 7 / Storage Heaters

[Cookyweb]

Hello All,

My friend has just moved into a rented house which is all electric and has a hot water tank and Storage heaters, my head is mashed already! lol

I understand the principle that the heaters charge over night when the tariff is cheaper and then kick out heat the following day, but looking at the heaters I feel confused as only one of them seems to have input and output controls, so does that mean only one of the heaters is the type that charges overnight and the others are just standard use on demand heaters?

Heater 1 & 2 both look huge and to me look the same but the second one has no controls other than output from what I can see

I've included pictures of the controls on each

So my question really is, looking at the pics, which ones are overnight chargers and which ones are just standard on demand heaters?

Any help appreciated as always

 

[flameport]

Heater 1 is a storage heater, floor standing, full of bricks and will weigh about 200kg.

Not clear from the photo what heater 2 is, but if it is a storage type it will also be floor standing and have a substantial weight to it.

Heaters 3,4,5 are wall mounted convector affairs which will weigh nothing and use peak rate electricity for 'instant' heat when required. Cheap to install and will cost a fortune to use. Favoured by property developers and cheapo landlords who only care about the install cost.

 

[Cookyweb]

Hi there,

thanks for the reply, yes that makes sense, both 1&2 do have feet and stand on the floor as well

I found it strange that heater 2 doesn’t have input dials so assume that means it just fully charges at max over night and you can’t set it lower like you can heater 1?

 

[stem]

Heater 1 is a storage heater. The input dial selects how much heat is stored up over night, and the output dial how much heat is released during the day. They can be tricky to operate though. For example in mild weather even with the output on the lowest setting some heat is still released so if the input was set too high the night before the room could become uncomfortably warm and there's no way of switching the heat off completely. In cold weather, if the input is too low, then you can run out of heat. Various tariffs are available [Economy 7 / Economy 10] which offer different charging times and even an afternoon boost. The controls look like it could be a Dimplex FXL and if so it will be fan assisted.

Heater 2 is a Dimplex Duoheat. Which is a storage heater and convector heater combined. There's a video that shows you how to use it here.

The others are just convectors as @flameport. They are usually installed in bedrooms because they are much more controllable than storage heaters, and generally bedrooms don't require heat all day just for a couple of short periods.

 

[Diver Fred]

Did your friend received an EPC document as part of the paperwork? The EPC doc will give guidance on what type of heating is in place. (If it is not an 'E' or higher then it cannot be let (in England at least).) No EPC document then I'd say the landlord is dodgy.
It would be helpful to have pictures of more than just the controls.
Picture one looks to me to be an old 'fully controlable' Night Storage Heater (NSH). Picture 2 I've never seen a heater like that before. Do either or both of them have 1 or 2 cables? With 2 cables then the heaters are 'modern' NSH with fan assistance.

 

[Cookyweb]

Hi,

Thank you all very much for the help, the video was great and a massive help!

In answer to the Last question, Heater 2 has 2 wires which baffled me big time, is that because the night rate is basically another ring in the house? so this heater has one connection on the normal day rate electric and one on the night rate ring?

That would make sense as in the electric cupboard there seems to be one ECU for all the lighting and sockets and then a separate ECU with anything heating related on it?

Or am I missing the point completely lol

 

[Diver Fred]

Hi,

Thank you all very much for the help, the video was great and a massive help!

In answer to the Last question, Heater 2 has 2 wires which baffled me big time, is that because the night rate is basically another ring in the house? so this heater has one connection on the normal day rate electric and one on the night rate ring?

That would make sense as in the electric cupboard there seems to be one ECU for all the lighting and sockets and then a separate ECU with anything heating related on it?

Or am I missing the point completely lol

So, Heater 2 is a output controllable NSH, the householder does not control how much energy it consumes overnight - that is on E7 rate, one cable. The output is controlled by the controller on top - Fan assisted, blows warm air out out low level (across the floor), the other cable.
the E7 wiring is (or should be) radial - one protection device per NSH in consumer unit.
The fan assist cabling can be off the ring main.
Also the fan assistance may also have a heating element for use on the coldest days.

 

[Cookyweb]

Heater 1 is a storage heater. The input dial selects how much heat is stored up over night, and the output dial how much heat is released during the day. They can be tricky to operate though. For example in mild weather even with the output on the lowest setting some heat is still released so if the input was set too high the night before the room could become uncomfortably warm and there's no way of switching the heat off completely. In cold weather, if the input is too low, then you can run out of heat. Various tariffs are available [Economy 7 / Economy 10] which offer different charging times and even an afternoon boost. The controls look like it could be a Dimplex FXL and if so it will be fan assisted.

View attachment 241873

Heater 2 is a Dimplex Duoheat. Which is a storage heater and convector heater combined. There's a video that shows you how to use it here.

The others are just convectors as @flameport. They are usually installed in bedrooms because they are much more controllable than storage heaters, and generally bedrooms don't require heat all day just for a couple of short periods.

Hi Stem,

That video is a huge help, the only thing I'm not grasping is how you use the economy 7 over night charged heat compared to using the convertor heat. In the video when the guy presses the up and down arrows that appears to be turning the heat output up or down using your standard tariff convector heat, how do you change the output of the heat generated from the overnight charge? It looked like when he held the + button down that was to change how much it charges overnight, but how do you then output that heat instead of the convector heat?

Sorry if thats worded badly, I know what I mean

 

[dilalio]

hearing element

 

[stem]

Think of the "convector" as a totally separate device bolted onto the front of the heater. It's controlled simply by the + and - buttons. When the blue light shows, it's off. [This heater uses 'peak' rate electricity which will be several times more than the cost of the 'off peak' electricity used by the storage heater. Hence the second cable. One for 'peak' rate electricity and one for 'off peak' electricity]

For the storage heater, the amount of heat stored is set by holding the + button for ten seconds and when the red light flashes you set how much heat you want it to store up during the off peak charge. using the + and - buttons.

This heater doesn't have any output control, so it's simply a case of the more you store up overnight, the warmer the heater is during the day.

With the first heater you show, you can see that it has a grille at the top. The greater the number selected on the 'output' knob, the more heat comes out. The Dimplex Duoheat doesn't have outlet grilles so doesn't have this facility.

Hope that helps

 

[Cookyweb]

Hi Stem,

Ah ok I think I'm with you, what I'm concerned about is using the convector part because as you say thats more expensive so should only be used if required and not as the norm.

So just to make sure I'm reading this right, if I charge the heater up say half way overnight, then it will kick out heat the next day until it runs out but you cant control how much, it just does it based on how much it charged. so you'd set the level to the blue icon (so the convector isnt used) set the overnight one (with the 10 second flashy bit) to say half way and just let it do its thing. As soon as you start to mess with the standard the +/- setting you are kicking the convector into use?

Sorry I'm sounding dumb, it's just getting my head around it and getting used to the fact you cant really control the output on that model.

 

[Diver Fred]

Hi Stem,

Ah ok I think I'm with you, what I'm concerned about is using the convector part because as you say thats more expensive so should only be used if required and not as the norm.

So just to make sure I'm reading this right, if I charge the heater up say half way overnight, then it will kick out heat the next day until it runs out but you cant control how much, it just does it based on how much it charged. so you'd set the level to the blue icon (so the convector isnt used) set the overnight one (with the 10 second flashy bit) to say half way and just let it do its thing. As soon as you start to mess with the standard the +/- setting you are kicking the convector into use?

Sorry I'm sounding dumb, it's just getting my head around it and getting used to the fact you cant really control the output on that model.

Here you are - Instructions https://www.dimplex.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets//DuoHeat_N_Operating_Instructions_Issue_3.pdf

There should be some visable markings on the NSH, hidden but visable. Manufacturers name and a possible model no on or around control flap; top R/H side at back (a mirror should help to read it) or at ground level at side or underneath on back panel but visible from front.

 

[stem]

With the stored heating, (called "background" in the instructions posted above) the lower the setting; the cooler the heater will be during the day because the heater 'core' has been heated to a lower temperature, the higher the setting, the warmer the heater will be during the day as the 'core' will have been heated to a higher temperature.

If you are familiar with a gas or oil boiler, they have a thermostat on the boiler. Set it low and the radiators will be cooler to the touch than if it was set to maximum. That's similar to how the Duoheat "background" heating works.

The convector ("comfort" part) is there as a top up if there isn't enough heat from the stored part. Whether you need it or not will depend upon the size of the room and how well insulated it is. In many cases it's not required at all or only in the coldest weather.

 

[Cookyweb]

Hi Both,

Thank you very much, I feel I'm an expert now

Cheers again, very much appreciated!

 

[Cookyweb]

Hello again, sorry it’s me

I wonder if you could just advise on one more
Thing, I’m trying to get my head around wether all electric switches to the cheaper rate over night or just the heating and hot water

The neighbour said it’s everything and she users her washing machine before 7am so it’s cheaper, but looking at the wiring and the fact it has a separate ECU I’m thinking that’s not the case in this house

can you tell from the pics which is true of this house?