electric everything (water and heating) - is this mad?

[bodgerthebadger]

Hi all

I'm new to the forum but have trawled through all the old posts on this and come up with a plan for a flat that involves no gas / oil / wet central hearing system. I want to know if this is madness!

This is the ground floor of a semi-detached 1920s urban house - the house has been converted (badly) into two one bed flats.

There is currently no central heating system and no separate hot water system - the downstairs hot water is coming from whatever is heating upstairs (presumably an immersion). This all needs to be sorted out so that our downstairs flat is properly split from upstairs.

There is no gas connected to the house. We don't particularly want gas because we'd like to be able to buy green electricity. However, it's apparently in the street if we need it.

Plan is:

Heating:
- Economy 7 storage heaters (4 in total) (professionally installed)
- Wood burning stove (possible back boiler later for additional radiator in bedroom) (DIY install)
- Electric towel rail and overhead blower in bathroom (professionally installed)
- Top up heating in bedroom / dining room using cheap oil filled plug in radiators when the weather is as cold as it is now (no installation cost)

Hot water:

- Unvented direct water cylinder for the bath, wash basin, kitchen sink and shower (professionally installed and maintained)

We have a budget to acheive all this of NO MORE THAN £7500.00

Are we being stupid?

 

[hairyben]

Seems plausible to me.

I'd say 2-3k should cover the 4 E7's, towell & blow heaters and asc. circuitry, you'd have to speak to a plumber about the rest but from what I know it should be in the ball park.

Another option people with limited space go for is electric shower & instantaneous hot water heater to sinks/bath, cheaper to run & more efficient, but a cylinder would give better pressure & quicker bath fill.

 

[Click-Sure]

I'd go on the side of gas, with a central heating system, which could in the future (a new gas boiler will last 2 - 15 years) be replaced with a wet electric system, new developments are coming thick and fast.

Do like the log burner idea, I have one and it saves me a fortune in gas.

Electric towel heaters are just a waste of space, get one that links to the central heating system with an electric backup element.

Overhead blower in bathroom, is that one of those body dryers, if so I wouldn't count that as heating.

Gas will save you money now, and in the future, unless they want a kings ransom to provide (split cost with upstairs?) Its also not that bad for the planet with new High Efficiency boilers.

 

[flameport]

This is the ground floor of a semi-detached 1920s urban house - the house has been converted (badly) into two one bed flats.

If the conversion hasn't been done properly, do check what the maximum loading on the electricity supply is - no use installing electric heating only to find the incoming supply is an ancient 40A fuse which supplies upstairs as well!

Insulating the ceilings will also be worthwhile - otherwise a lot of the heat will just go upstairs.

 

[bodgerthebadger]

Brilliant - thanks, this is just the sort of advice we need.

Well, sounds like gas central heating makes most sense but is most expensive to install.

Over / under sink electric water heaters do sound like a great short term idea if they actually work - this was our first plan but then we thought it would be impossible to run a bath off one and we assumed they'd be horribly inefficient - perhaps they're not? Is there one on the market that you can run a bath off of?

I'll get an electrician in to work out what is and isn't possible. I don't think the electrics have been split properly (only one consumer unit that we could find) so this will have to be done. Presumably at that stage the electrician can give us an idea of what we'd need to do to improve the supply? If it does need to be sorted out would this be an expensive job?

Many thanks all - this is a huge help!

 

[hairyben]

Brilliant - thanks, this is just the sort of advice we need.

Well, sounds like gas central heating makes most sense but is most expensive to install.

Over / under sink electric water heaters do sound like a great short term idea if they actually work - this was our first plan but then we thought it would be impossible to run a bath off one and we assumed they'd be horribly inefficient - perhaps they're not? Is there one on the market that you can run a bath off of?

I'll get an electrician in to work out what is and isn't possible. I don't think the electrics have been split properly (only one consumer unit that we could find) so this will have to be done. Presumably at that stage the electrician can give us an idea of what we'd need to do to improve the supply? If it does need to be sorted out would this be an expensive job?

Many thanks all - this is a huge help!

a 12kW instantaneous water heater will fill the bath more efficiently than a cylinder as you only heat the water you're about to use, it'll be a bit slower to fill though.

Click-sure has a point with the wet system, evan most sparks would have one- go figure. you could have electric boiler(s) which would give you an "upgrade" path to gas- good for selling etc, and you could combine your woodburner with the system, with the electric or gas boiler dropping out and supplementing when required. Talk to a good plumber about this...

I wouldn't say electric towel heaters are a waste of space... just more expensive to run... if it's a sole heat source get one with a decent (400/500w) thermostatic element

 

[Steve]

If you have an electric shower, over the bath, use that to fill the bath as an instantaeneous water heater. After all thats all it is, and plenty of power at 9-11kw.

Then you just need a 3kw instant heater under the bathroom sink, and a stored water heater under the kitchen sink (you need higher temps in kitchen). You'd put this on a timer, so it heats only when you need it. You'll be lucky to get more than a sink of water from it though.

However a 3kw immersion heater will do the whole lot but could end up costing more to run. Up to you.

Think about it, try some calcs. a bath would take, say, 10-15 mins to run @ 10kw, you use the 3kw under sink for 5 mins a day for your shave and wash, and the kitchen one runs for 3 hours a day (say 2kw)

compare this to the 3kw one heating overnight on off peak (but on a thermostat), then during the day for 3 hours.



By the way, air/ground source heat pumps are great and up to 400% efficient.

 

[holmslaw]

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