Electric heating 3 meters tariffs no one supports it

[SimonH2]

The meter we have has a diagram on the front showing that it's really 3off SP meters electrically - as such it doesn't matter if it's 2 or 3 phases connected, or as we have, a single phase split between two phases on the meter. Literally, just two tails from the one fuse into L1 and L2 on the meter.
Thinking a bit more, the meter wouldn't need any reconfiguring. I'd imagine the default would be to just add the phases and present one load total - how many people would be interested in the individual readings/phase ?

So for the OP, it would be as "simple" as one fuse in the head connecting to L1 in on the meter, the other fuse in the head connecting to L2 in. L1 out connects to one CU, L2 out connects to the other CU - via the contactor which can be switched by the meter. In electrical/engineering terms - trivial to do.
However, I suspect it's down as two physical supplies, and having one meter on two supplies just "can't be done, computer says no" territory.

 

[JohnW2]

The meter we have has a diagram on the front showing that it's really 3off SP meters electrically - as such it doesn't matter if it's 2 or 3 phases connected, or as we have, a single phase split between two phases on the meter. ... Thinking a bit more, the meter wouldn't need any reconfiguring.

Indeed, that's what I would have expected. I probably wasn't clear in what I wrote before - when I said that the 2 had to be derived from the same 3-phase supply, what I really meant was that they presumably have to have a common neutral.

I'd imagine the default would be to just add the phases and present one load total - how many people would be interested in the individual readings/phase ?

My experience is limited, but I haven't personally seen or heard of a meter displaying separate phase data - and, as you imply, I would think that would be a very rare requirement.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

My experience is limited, but I haven't personally seen or heard of a meter displaying separate phase data - and, as you imply, I would think that would be a very rare requirement.

Kind Regards, John

I've worked in several places where the [mechanical] meters had an ammeter with a resettable pointer to display peak current, and standard usage for each phase plus a cumulative usage across the phases and another resettable pointer to indicate peak total power. Every 3 months the meter reader would take all 8 readings then remove the seals on the peak pointer and reset/reseal them.

 

[JohnW2]

I've worked in several places where the [mechanical] meters had an ammeter with a resettable pointer to display peak current, and standard usage for each phase plus a cumulative usage across the phases and another resettable pointer to indicate peak total power. Every 3 months the meter reader would take all 8 readings then remove the seals on the peak pointer and reset/reseal them.

Interesting. Those ammeters were presumably separate from, and additional to, the primary (kWh) metering?

As far as I am aware, the kWh metering in a true 3-phase mechanical kWh meter has/had the disks connected to a single shaft (the rotation of which indicated total kWh across all phases), so couldn't know what was going on (kWh-wise) in the individual phases.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Interesting. Those ammeters were presumably separate from, and additional to, the primary (kWh) metering?

As far as I am aware, the kWh metering in a true 3-phase mechanical kWh meter has/had the disks connected to a single shaft (the rotation of which indicated total kWh across all phases), so couldn't know what was going on (kWh-wise) in the individual phases.

Kind Regards, John

I do know what you are saying is generally the norm, these certainly had 4 distinct KWh dials.

 

[JohnW2]

I do know what you are saying is generally the norm, these certainly had 4 distinct KWh dials.

If they really were electro-mechanical, I would suspect that there must have been effectively three single phase meters - since, as I said, the only 3-phase electro-mechanical kWh meters I've ever heard of had a 'single shaft' to which the disks (each with its own coils) was attached. Mind you, as I said, my experience is very limited, so there may have been other types which I haven't heard of

Kind Regards, john

 

[SUNRAY]

If they really were electro-mechanical, I would suspect that there must have been effectively three single phase meters - since, as I said, the only 3-phase electro-mechanical kWh meters I've ever heard of had a 'single shaft' to which the disks (each with its own coils) was attached.

Kind Regards, john

I believe you are correct in both comments.

 

[mattylad]

How about getting gas central heating fitted instead?

 

[SimonH2]

I think there's an implicit assumption that GCH isn't an option. Believe it or not, there are still lots of areas without mains gas, and tank gas (LPG) is "quite expensive" so possibly (I haven't looked) as expensive as lecky (especially after installation costs have been taken into account).

 

[JohnW2]

... Believe it or not, there are still lots of areas without mains gas, and tank gas (LPG) is "quite expensive" so possibly (I haven't looked) as expensive as lecky ....

Yep, I'm in such an area. As for prices, for what it's worth ...

... after some 'hard negotiation' with Calor, I'm currently paying 36.5 p/litre for LPG, which equates to about 5.14 p/kWh. In comparison, with what I think is a pretty good deal, for E7 electricity I'm paying 14.7 p/kWh daytime and 10.3 p/kWh cheap rate. I'm not sure about piped natural gas, but I think an average price is around 4.3 p/kWh these days? - so, for me, LPG is costing maybe 20% more than natural gas, but only half of even cheap-rate E7 electricity, and not much more than a third of daytime E7.

... (especially after installation costs have been taken into account).

If one starts with no gas at all, there's obviously an initial cost of the internal pipework and appliances (albeit the latter applies regardless of fuel). I'm not sure of the present situation, but I certainly did not pay to have an LPG tank installed (about 33 years ago), but it was fairly recently 'routinely replaced', on it's 30th birthday, at no cost to me.

Have just had a quick look on-line at 'fuel price comparisons', it is "interesting" to see that by far the cheapest fuel appears to be coal, at about 2.1 p/kWh - although I don't know how things work out if one takes the efficiency of coal-burning heating into account.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

... after some 'hard negotiation' with Calor, I'm currently paying 36.5 p/litre for LPG, which equates to about 5.14 p/kWh. In comparison, with what I think is a pretty good deal, for E7 electricity I'm paying 14.7 p/kWh daytime and 10.3 p/kWh cheap rate. I'm not sure about piped natural gas, but I think an average price is around 4.3 p/kWh these days? - so, for me, LPG is costing maybe 20% more than natural gas, but only half of even cheap-rate E7 electricity, and not much more than a third of daytime E7.

11.910p and 2.100p here, plus standing charges.

I did once (long ago) work out the cost of burning bottled gas in a portable heater and found it was more expensive than electric.

 

[JohnW2]

11.910p and 2.100p here, plus standing charges.

For what?

I did once (long ago) work out the cost of burning bottled gas in a portable heater and found it was more expensive than electric.

Indeed, Until one gets up to the very large 'bottles' (e.g. 47 kg), bottled LPG is very expensive - for the smallest bottles it can be over 30 p/kWh.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Have just had a quick look on-line at 'fuel price comparisons', it is "interesting" to see that by far the cheapest fuel appears to be coal, at about 2.1 p/kWh - although I don't know how things work out if one takes the efficiency of coal-burning heating into account.

70 to 90% of the heat goes up the chimney from an open fire.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

For what?

Electric per kwh and gas per kwh.

 

[JohnW2]

70 to 90% of the heat goes up the chimney from an open fire.

Indeed - hence my comment. However 'open fires' are not the only way in which coal can be used, and I don't know what degree of efficiency can be achieved by some of the alternatives.

Kind Regards, John