Upgrading to Electric Central Heating

[JohnW2]

However I do not really agree that storage heaters use power 'whether needed or not' - they are thermostatically controlled just like gas, so only come on when needed.

I don't fully understand that. A storage heater uses power to generate and store heat during the night, and then releases that heat during the following day - whether or not it transpires that (some or all of) that heat is required that next day.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

However I do not really agree that storage heaters use power 'whether needed or not' - they are thermostatically controlled just like gas, so only come on when needed.

Not sure what you mean.

They heat overnight with no knowledge of whether the weather 'tomorrow' will be hot or cold.

 

[phatboy]

To JohnW2 & EFLImpudence - that's the good thing about E8 (E10 for you guys), it provides a few hours heat overnight, and a couple of other 'bursts' during the daytime - all of which are provided as needed, according to the thermostat.

At the moment, mine are all turned off, but come November I will turn them on and set the thermostat to the temperature I would like the room to be. The 3 daily bursts of heat will ensure the temperature remains around what I have set.

 

[JohnW2]

To JohnW2 & EFLImpudence - that's the good thing about E8 (E10 for you guys), it provides a few hours heat overnight, and a couple of other 'bursts' during the daytime - all of which are provided as needed, according to the thermostat. At the moment, mine are all turned off, but come November I will turn them on and set the thermostat to the temperature I would like the room to be. The 3 daily bursts of heat will ensure the temperature remains around what I have set.

That's fine so long as you need at least as much heat during the day as was stored during the previous night but (particularly with as changeable weather as we've had this year!) what if 'tomorrow' proves to be a very warm day? The 'controllable' bit isn't really anything to do with 'storage heater' but is the result of a ploy/gesture by electricity suppliers' tarifs to try to make storage heaters a slightly less unattractive prospect!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Duplicate deleted

 

[EFLImpudence]

The 3 daily bursts of heat will ensure the temperature remains around what I have set.

Ok. It obviously works for you but the main problem people usually have with storage heaters is that there is no heat left in the evening and overnight.

 

[SimonH2]

However I do not really agree that storage heaters use power 'whether needed or not' - they are thermostatically controlled just like gas, so only come on when needed.

Only to a point. They turn on at night to heat a big pile of bricks - controlled by a thermostat which sets how hot to heat them, and hence ho much heat to store. During the day, they release the heat in a seemingly uncontrolled manner - I think the ones at work have a flap which may be just manually set or may have a thermostatic element to it.

The problem is that the flap arrangement isn't very good, and effectively you get heat out a) when you don't need it, and b) in a not very well controlled manner. So a portion of what you put in is wasted by either heating the room when you don't need it, or by over-heating the room (as I mentioned, we frequently have to open windows when the office gets too hot). In a domestic setting, you put a lot of heat in, it comes out during the day while you are out, and then in the evening they run out of heat.

Assuming of course that you aren't obsessive-compulsive enough to manually run them and keep adjusting the output control.

In theory, adding "proper" controls could largely mitigate this problem, but I don't know if anything available does that.


In theory a wet system with a water cylinder heated on off-peak could work better (as in how most people would be used to) - but to get the most out you'd need to oversize rads to work at low temperatures as the store depletes (from memory, dropping the supply temp from 70˚C to 50˚C roughly halves the output of a rad). You may need a sizeable store if you want a reasonable heat storage. You'd also want a thermostatic mixer valve to mix hot water from the store with cooler return water so as to a) avoid very hot rad temps when the store is "full", and b) keep a relatively uniform feed temp and so allow TRVs to work properly.
Say you worked between 90˚ when full and 50˚ 'empty' (ie 40˚ difference). It will take 4.2kW to heat 1l of water by 1˚C/s. So 4.2x40 = 168 kWs per litre of water. Thus you'd need 3600/168 = around 10l of water per kWHr of heat storage.
Work out your heat requirements in kW Hr / day, multiply by 10, and that's roughly what you'd need to do all your heating from stored heat. You could still have a second immersion heater to top up part of the store at day rates if you were to run out.
If that is all you use the store for, then any old cylinder will do. If you want hot water from it as well, then you are into thermal store/heat bank territory and can add another digit to the price You'd also need a considerably bigger store.

The biggest factor that determines if this is practical is whether there is room for the store - closely followed by how hard/disruptive it would be to install all the plumbing.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Guys - there is absolutely no point whatsoever trying to have a rational discussion with phatboy - he simply does not do rational:

I personally have a distrust of gas, probably for no good reason, but
I always worry about potential explosions!

• 
  

 

[phatboy]

Guys - there is absolutely no point whatsoever trying to have a rational discussion with the OP - he simply does not do rational:

I personally have a distrust of gas, probably for no good reason, but
I always worry about potential explosions!

• 
  

Nice try BAS, but I am not the OP of this thread. Better luck next time eh!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks for the correction - post edited.

 

[phatboy]

Thanks for the correction - post edited.

You are still being an idiot though..... I'm sure you main purpose on here is to stir poopoo

 

[big-all]

Thanks for the correction - post edited.

You are still being an idiot though..... I'm sure you main purpose on here is to stir poopoo

in my opinion his intentions are fully correct and honorable
yes his mind works a bit different to others but to be honest we are all different

i would fully trust bas without reservation he has no ulterior motive just honest and helpful intentions

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are still being an idiot though.....

Really?

You think this is rational:

I personally have a distrust of gas, probably for no good reason, but
I always worry about potential explosions!

?

 

[securespark]

Thanks for the correction - post edited.

You are still being an idiot though..... I'm sure you main purpose on here is to stir poopoo

You're up late for someone who goes to nursery.

 

[OwainDIYer]

The problem is that the flap arrangement isn't very good, and effectively you get heat out a) when you don't need it, and b) in a not very well controlled manner. So a portion of what you put in is wasted by either heating the room when you don't need it, or by over-heating the room (as I mentioned, we frequently have to open windows when the office gets too hot). In a domestic setting, you put a lot of heat in, it comes out during the day while you are out, and then in the evening they run out of heat.

Assuming of course that you aren't obsessive-compulsive enough to manually run them and keep adjusting the output control.

In theory, adding "proper" controls could largely mitigate this problem, but I don't know if anything available does that.

You can get fan assisted storage heaters, which are better insulated so have lower standing heat losses, and a fan is used when heat is required. The fan can be controlled by timer/thermostat. They're bulkier than ordinary storage heaters though, and quite expensive.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ERADL4024.html