Electrics virgin!

[PrinceofDarkness]

Nevertheless BAS, you were the first here to mention the 'F' word, when you said in your first post that a 'friend's neighbour' had a roof 'F'ire due to a shower cable being surrounded my insulation.

I put it to you that if there had been such an inccident, that 'that fire' would have been caused by a loose connection in the ceiling switch (or similar) and not by the temperature of a PVC sheathed cable smothered in insulation - unless the occupant had been having an extended six-month-long shower.........

Give a thought to that situation, dear. A PVC cable would have to go into a complete insulation meltdown and have no circuit protection before it would cause the 'F' situation.

If you'd like to tell me the approximate date and the district of that fabulous inccident, I'd be very pleased to check your story and to confirm it. Otherwise, I'll just regard it as needless and unhelpful scaremongering.

You continue to disappoint me, I thought better of you......


Lucia.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Nevertheless BAS, you were the first here to mention the 'F' word, when you said in your first post that a 'friend's neighbour' had a roof 'F'ire due to a shower cable being surrounded my insulation.

Yes, but I never said that the fire happened because the cable had been damaged by contact with polystyrene.

Why do you keep trying to divert the issue of PVC damage to one of heat damage?

I put it to you that if there had been such an inccident, that 'that fire' would have been caused by a loose connection in the ceiling switch (or similar) and not by the temperature of a PVC sheathed cable smothered in insulation - unless the occupant had been having an extended six-month-long shower.........

Give a thought to that situation, dear. A PVC cable would have to go into a complete insulation meltdown and have no circuit protection before it would cause the 'F' situation.

If you'd like to tell me the approximate date and the district of that fabulous inccident, I'd be very pleased to check your story and to confirm it.

I put it to you that I can't be @rsed to deal with your stupid and dangerous quibbling.

Otherwise, I'll just regard it as needless and unhelpful scaremongering.

Should suit you down to the ground then.

You continue to disappoint me, I thought better of you......

You'll get over it.

Feel free to go back to the ADHD monkeys at any time.

 

[GaryMo]

A little creative thinking should lead you down the correct path.

No.

 

[Electrifying]

With my filthy mind, I couldn't repeat what I was thinking - just wanted to know what he was actually saying.

I thought the idea of these forums was to use plain english and not 'textspeak', so that everyone could understand??............and before anyone slates me (as usual), I know I used 'lol', but that's known the world over ha ha

 

[GaryMo]

I thought the idea of these forums was to use plain english and not 'textspeak', so that everyone could understand??

I couldn't agree more.

Bunsen has nothing of interest to add to this forum other than childish comments and insults.

 

[noseall]

So, based upon what you guys and gals are saying, the construction industry needs to rethink the way we either insulate our homes or wire our homes.

I can not believe that the materials involved in wiring and insulating are not compatible.

And as for loads on cables that can not shed their heat and are likely to burst into flames!!! I think the electric installation industry as a whole needs to buck up their ideas.

 

[electronicsuk]

I can not believe that the materials involved in wiring and insulating are not compatible.

With the exception of polystyrene, they are, and it's not a particularly fantastic insulator in comparison to modern materials such as Celotex anyway.

And as for loads on cables that can not shed their heat and are likely to burst into flames!!! I think the electric installation industry as a whole needs to buck up their ideas.

I can't really see what's led you to this conclusion. Are we supposed to try and predict every future alteration to the house that may significantly affect the current carrying capacity of the cable? Perhaps we had better start installing weatherproof sockets in every downstairs room, just in case the customer decides to install an indoor hot tub...

 

[Electrifying]

And as for loads on cables that can not shed their heat and are likely to burst into flames!!! I think the electric installation industry as a whole needs to buck up their ideas.

Why do they need to buck their ideas up?? - external influences preventing cables from dispersing their heat are dealt with by the de-rating of the current carrying capacity of the cable - which, to be honest, is not just in 'the regs', it's common sense

 

[noseall]

So why don't you guys install all cables within a suitable trunking complete with heat and chemical protection?

Why is the construction industry so inept as to allow something as common as pvc and polystyrene to be so incompatible. The whole leaching thing is a bit weird.

 

[electronicsuk]

So why don't you guys install all cables within a suitable trunking complete with heat and chemical protection?

Trunking brings its own problems in that when multiple cables are in close proximity, they must also be de-rated to account for the extra heat produced and the difficulty in dissipating it.

If it were known at the time of installation that PVC cables would be in contact with polystyrene, a good electrician would find a way of mitigating any problems, such as trunking or conduit as you have mentioned. It would be wasteful to install these 'just in case' given the extra cost of the materials and labour involved.

After all, as a builder, would you construct a bungalow to take the weight of another storey on top of it, just in case?

 

[Electrifying]

So why don't you guys install all cables within a suitable trunking complete with heat and chemical protection?

Why is the construction industry so inept as to allow something as common as pvc and polystyrene to be so incompatible. The whole leaching thing is a bit weird.

Your first statement would be unworkable - probably more to do with cost than anything else - a lot easier if builders and roofers use their common when throwing insulation into a loft.

As for your second statement I don't think the construction industry were consulted when it was decided what chemicals would react with each other.

Copper and aluminium are common, useful but not compatible - not the construction industry's fault either

 

[mointainwalker]

@electronicsuk

Celotex (PIR ) is a closed-cell foam which derives its improved insulation properties from the fact that the gas in the cells is less conductive than air.

HOWEVER over a period of years ( 5-7 ) this gas escapes and is replaced by air and the expensive PIR is then no better than fibre-wool or polystyrene insulation.

There are proposals being discussed to replace the current "here-and-now" U-values by a weighted-average over "x" years.

This apart, simply because of cost , most contact between cables and insulation will be with fibre-wool and this ignites at around 1500 C which diminishes any likely problem.

I hope that I have used enough "modifiers" to save me from any potential attack from any potential forum vigilante.