End Feed Soldering

[kev999]

Hi,
I'm trying to move some of the pipework on my central heating. I decided to use endfeed fittings because the existing pipe is 8mm microbore and it will be on show.
I have made the pipe runs and connected it all up OK.
I have never done any endfeed soldering before but I thought it cant be that hard.(my mistake).
I'm practising on scap pipe at the moment, I first put Flux on the pipe and fitting to be soldered (using Fluxite paste). Put the parts togther then heat with blow touch until just turns red. I then try to alppy the solder to the joint but it does not seem to want to suck it in and fill the joint. I'm using Multicore - Multiflow plumbers solder.
The solder and Flux and at least 8 years old, someone at work lent me them.
Can the solder go off with age?
Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
A quick answer would be helpful because I'm right in the middle of the job now.
Thanks

 

[WDIK]

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_3d_index.asp?page_id=35749917

 

[seco services]

heating it till it turns red. sounds like your heating it to long.
microbore is the easyest to solder doesn't require the heat on it to long before the solder will run.
make sure you have cleaned the pipe well or the solder won't take to used pipe well, new pipe is not a problem.

 

[kev999]

Thanks for the tips. I will try again and let you know how I get on.

 

[doitall]

Put the flame on the fitting and keep touching the joint with the solder till it runs, then take the heat away.

 

[Softus]

Scrap tube is harder to solder then new.

The common pitfall is lack of cleanliness. The contact area on the tube and the coupling/fitting should be spotless and grease free.

I doubt that the age of the solder is a problem, but I'm in the habit of keeping my rolls of solder wrapped up so that they don't oxidise, and of cleaning the length that I'm about to use with wire wool.

You don't need to get the copper anywhere near red hot - at that temperature you've probably vaporised all the flux.

 

[doitall]

Being as how its cherry red an stick of Phosphorus Bronze and braze it sounds a good idea

 

[clf-gas]

cleaning the length that I'm about to use with wire wool

Was told this in my fetch me carry me years, though I wont use wire wool now,(hate the little spills in fingers). I now use Scotch brite pads

As DIA says, apply heat to fitting not the pipe and keep testing with solder, when it runs remove heat and apply more solder to edge of fitting.
Now clean off with damp, not wet cloth. Result one proffessional looking joint..

 

[JohnD]

after cleaning with scotchbrite or wire wool, rub it clean with a clean cotton rag. you will be surprised how much dirt there is. Don't use sandpaper-type abrasives as they leave particles of grit embedded in the soft copper.

you are getting it too hot. Keep dabbing it with the end of your solder and you will see when it starts to run

When you say multicore, I hope you do not mean the electronic type with Rosin flux inside. you will be using a thin smear of white plumbers flux.

opinions differ, but my view is that, like lubricating a bearing, you need to get in inside the female part, as the male part will be scraped clean when you push it in. get it smeared on all the mating parts, as it prevents the copper oxidising (and solder will not flow onto it then)

I know someone who make prototype aircon and refrigeration units, he likes to tin the ends of the pipes before assembling the joint. If you flux first and run solder over it, you can wipe it with a clean cotton rag while it is still running. the solder will stick to the pipe not the rag. this prevents it hardening into a lump that will not go into the fitting. many people would consider this to be unnecessary work, but his joints are very good and never fail. I sometimes do it myself if working in an awkward place or re-making a failed joint

 

[Garfeild]

JohnD i agree with you,i always flux the socket rather than the spigot,i also think that a degree of "wiping clean" takes place when inserting the fitting.There are those that disagree,mainly from a pushing flux into the pipe point of view,but a thourough flushing,is usually easier than draining/resoldering/fillling/testing.

I also tin the pipe to get a good joint,if its in an awkward position.

 

[Ricky_M]

I always wipe clean both fitting and pipe. Apply flux to both pipe and fitting. If appearance is crucial, I'll wipe excess flux off with tissue paper, heat gently and apply solder to the back of the joint that can not be seen, the solder will then run neatly all the way around the fitting. I do this often and have never experienced a leak.

Also with microbore pipe, I find it helps to flatten the solder with a hammer, it makes it easier and neater to apply.

 

[kev999]

Thank you everybody for your help.
From your tips I managed to get the job done, no leaks yet.
A couple of the joints are a bit messy but they don't leak which is the main thing.
I have to do more of the same work next weekend and I'm hoping more practise will help me get quicker and better at it.

Thanks again.
Kev