Engineering works

[trevorhp]

Hi
Does anyone have a lead to a reference document stating what constitutes engineering works?

I am trying to ascertain if excavating to level a base for a detached garage under PD requires PP
Or conversely does building up ground to level a site constitute engineering works?

Alternatively can I just build stepped foundations and build a taller wall to get the site level assuming I stay within PD regs for detached buildings etc.

Any information or advice gratefully received....I have been following other posts on detached garage foundations but I am still unclear as to the actual definition of 'engineering works'

Thanks in advance
tp

 

[^woody^]

Foundation work is operational development under planning law, but I am not sure what you are asking as this has nothing to do with PD

If the garage is PD, then the foundations are included in that

 

[trevorhp]

Hi Woody
Thanks for the advice.

Ideally I need to excavate around 2m deep to form a level base on sloping ground, the garage is under 30m2
But I was told by a friend that the excavation would need PP as it was engineering works even though the garage did not require PP.
Just cannot find a definitive answer till now.
Thanks
tp

 

[^woody^]

Your friend is wrong, and I don't know what relevance you are giving to the 30m2 figure as that has nothing to do with planning permission - that's a build regulation criteria

PD will apply to the garage as a whole and not part of it. You will be bound by the normal height restrictions of PD (3m or 2.5m), as measured from the higher ground level in most cases

You don't need planning permission for excavation in any case

 

[timb138]

Hi All, Apologies if I should have started a new post but as the cases are so similar i thought I`d save a bit of time.

Woody, if you don't mind I`d like to ask you a bit more about your statement above.

I am in a similar situation to the OP.

Ie Ground sloping up hill 4.5m over a 13m rear garden plot is 10m wide.

Do you have anything to confirm that the levelling and excavations are also part of the PD.

We are in a conservation area with article 2 directions pertaining to the front of the property only.

i have confirmed verbally with the council that the following is still PD and have started prep for 3 permitted development projects as one single retaining wall will be required for all and I would not be able to get a digger in to do the extension when the garage is build.

I have excavated my rear garden slope out by 4m giving a 10m wide x 2.5m tall cliff face (the hill is chalk so self supporting) and am going to build a 2.5m segmented block retaining wall to prevent any ground movement in the future. The excess has been sent by grab lorries for recycling.

When this is done I`m building a 4m x 4m shed with a grassed roof to reinstate the grassed bank so it fits in with the gardens each side which is PD.

Next to this I`m building a 3m deep single storey extension with garden steps in-between the 2 structures, all PD so far.

In front of the garage is going to be laid to patio next to the house, the front gardens are being left level & grassed.

Planning enforcement have called and expressed their opinion that the excavation constitutes an engineering project and requires planning permission or they will consider enforcement action.

they argue that although the proposals are PD the scale of the excavation makes it an engineering project. I have asked them to prove it is an engineering project but they say in their opinion it is and that is that.

BC have no concerns over the excavations as long as a retaining wall is constructed.

Lots more details I could add and will if anyone needs the info but the post is long enough as it is.

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated as I don't have the money to get into appealing against an enforcement notice or a planning app that would, no doubt, turned down (they wouldn't even let me knock down a 1m high front wall to make a drive).

many thanks in advance.

 

[^woody^]

'Excavation' is the digging or removal of land as a prelude to another operation - eg the laying of foundations, or drains or suchlike

An 'engineering operation' occurs when altering the profile of the land or changing the character of the surface of the land - say by forming a hardstanding such as a patio, path or driveway etc

Excavation par-se, is not a planning issue, but an 'engineering operation' is termed 'operational development', and as such can fall under planning control

If the building works you are doing are to be PD or otherwise not a planning issue, then the excavation works must be incidental and associated to the building work.

This would mean that you can excavate to place your PD extension or wall and a reasonable bit of land around it, but you can not normally build the extension or wall, and then level the ground or bank around the rest of the garden say

If you are cutting into a bank to build an extension, then it would depend on the exact circumstances and site layout, as this may well be a lot more than just basic site levelling, and so it may become an engineering operation. But it all depends on the site specifics

If that does not clarify things, then if you could post a picture of the general view (ie not a close up) of the disputed work in context of what has been excavated, then it might make things a bit easier to visualise

 

[timb138]

Many Thanks Woody,

Today is actually my Birthday and I believe you have just given me the best present I could get!

From what you have told me I`m in the clear. Getting a photo of the site is not easy due to the lay of the land but I can email you the auto-cad plans I have to confirm if that's ok with you. I`ve got the address from your profile.

I`ve been searching for over a week and getting nowhere. I`ve been a member of this forum for years but didn't think it was the type of thing to be covered on DIYnot - how wrong can you be.