Ensuite waste

[ChrisR]

In my experience BCO's are very reasonable people unless you take the P. They've seen it ALL before!
Tell them you've realised you've dropped a clanger, put the wc out of use and ask them what to do.
The loft conversion was done before you moved in, perhaps..?

One once told me he'd been to 3 extensions in a week which had been built without foundations.

 

[ELZ4742]

deny all knowledge, say it had been done by the previous owner and that you had some concerns about its state. its your only excuse for the time being.

 

[Chri5]

John, grey waste is grey waste, not poo.

The conversion of your rain pipe hopper will still illegally send poo in to the grey waste system.

Poo must go to the poo waste stack or to the poo waste pit via a new pipe, using a Saniflow system breaks down the poo so it can be pumped via a smaller pipe, it MUST still connect to the poo waste (NOT the grey waste).

When the water authority realise that you are sending poo via the grey waste they will investigate the contamination source and fine you with costs (of the investigation and the treatment of the grey waste that will have poo in it). Sewage in the road side is x 2 pipes, one is the open system for grey waste and includes street gullies and all rain water waste.

Poo sewage waste is a separate sewer pipe and (obviously) is treated more extensively at the sewage plant. Currently you are causing the contamination of the local areas grey waste.

So PLEASE get away from the thought that you can easily remedy the problem by changing the hopper, the solution is to re-plumb the poo waste by connecting it to the existing soil stack or soil pit- You have no choice.

Regarding the illegal loft conversion, you may get away with it being classified as a loft space, a playroom or storage. Under no circumstances will BC allow it to be sanctioned as a bed or living room space due to fire issues, means of escape, stair size (possibly), fire detection system, insulation and a myriad of other things.

If the BC are due round, I would suggest you tell them that the room is not permanently used and that your reason for visit was to get an understanding of what would be required to convert it to a habitable space.

Please report back to us all on what they say, I'm sure the DIYnot massive will be pleased to assist further.

 

[ELZ4742]

i think what he was sayin was that you could send grey down the poo tube not poo down grey tube, no?

 

[FredFlintstone]

I cant afford to take advice!

I cant believe that the pipe would fill up to the level of the toilet if there was a blockage, it would all just leak out of the drain cover!

I'm not taking the p**s, I just dont have the money to pay what plumbers charge! What are they, £100 an hour these days?

John

John, you can't afford not to - honestly, what price do you put on your family's health and safety?

Are you saying this is an open drain? As in, the hopper drain pipe terminates at ground level and the waste water goes through a grid? If so, what about all those big turds you do - do they just sit on top of the grid?

Even if the pipe terminates beneath grid level, is there not a really nasty smell coming out from there? Man alive - what were you thinking? Did you not figure there's a reason for soil stacks?

That drain pipe with a hopper on top serves NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO DRAIN WATER FROM THAT GUTTER NEXT TO IT. Yes, you could drain a sink, bath or shower into it BUT IT IS NOT A SOIL STACK!

Tradesmen charge what they need to charge to earn a living. Simple as. They don't look at you and think "hmm, this guy's a muppet, I'll charge him double". They simply charge what they need to charge to get the job done.

Incidentally, because you've cocked this up big time, it will probably cost you twice what it would have done to pay someone to do it properly in the first place.

Christ! I'm no expert in anything. I am however renovating my own home but I make sure I do the research first before tackling any job. And by research, I mean loads of it.

 

[Softus]

The conversion of your rain pipe hopper will still illegally send poo in to the grey waste system.

Poo must go to the poo waste stack or to the poo waste pit via a new pipe, using a Saniflow system breaks down the poo so it can be pumped via a smaller pipe, it MUST still connect to the poo waste (NOT the grey waste).

When the water authority realise that you are sending poo via the grey waste they will investigate the contamination source and fine you with costs (of the investigation and the treatment of the grey waste that will have poo in it). Sewage in the road side is x 2 pipes, one is the open system for grey waste and includes street gullies and all rain water waste.

Poo sewage waste is a separate sewer pipe and (obviously) is treated more extensively at the sewage plant. Currently you are causing the contamination of the local areas grey waste.

Chri5, currently we don't have enough information to be certain about this, which is why I was careful to say that he "...may be discharging effluent into a public rainwater system...".

Many systems combine rainwater and foul waste within the private sewer before it joins the public one - the OP's system could be one of those.

Regarding the illegal loft conversion, you may get away with it being classified as a loft space, a playroom or storage. Under no circumstances will BC allow it to be sanctioned as a bed or living room space due to fire issues, means of escape, stair size (possibly), fire detection system, insulation and a myriad of other things.

I might be wrong on this, but I believe that the presence of a permanent staircase will cause it to be classified as living space and to be subject to all of those regulations that apply to living space.

If the BC are due round, I would suggest you tell them that the room is not permanently used and that your reason for visit was to get an understanding of what would be required to convert it to a habitable space.

Oh I don't think many BCOs are that gullible - and all of the ones I've ever met respect someone who tells the truth.

i think what he was sayin was that you could send grey down the poo tube not poo down grey tube, no?

Do you guys really have to resort to baby language?

 

[ELZ4742]

another feck up spotted! no sink with the toilet. another building reg missed!

brilliant!

 

[Softus]

Are you saying this is an open drain? As in, the hopper drain pipe terminates at ground level and the waste water goes through a grid? If so, what about all those big turds you do - do they just sit on top of the grid?

You're stretching plausibility Fred - the OP is stupid, but not insane.

That drain pipe with a hopper on top serves NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO DRAIN WATER FROM THAT GUTTER NEXT TO IT. Yes, you could drain a sink, bath or shower into it BUT IT IS NOT A SOIL STACK!

Er, no - you are not allowed to drain a bath, sink, basin, or shower into a rainwater system. And, obviously (to most of us), not a WC.

 

[ELZ4742]

ELZ4742 wrote:
i think what he was sayin was that you could send grey down the poo tube not poo down grey tube, no?

Do you guys really have to resort to baby language?

just trying to keep it simple, from now on i will use technical buzz words so the next reply will be "what do you mean by xxxx..." if it makes you happy

please remove....

 

[jgsmuzzy]

That drain pipe with a hopper on top serves NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO DRAIN WATER FROM THAT GUTTER NEXT TO IT. Yes, you could drain a sink, bath or shower into it BUT IT IS NOT A SOIL STACK!

Er, no - you are not allowed to drain a bath, sink, basin, or shower into a rainwater system. And, obviously (to most of us), not a WC.

My Gutters and bath/sink all join together before disappearing underground, in a 1930's built house. However, both of my toilets discharge into a soil stack.....

 

[bernardgreen]

John

No doubt you were acting in what you thought were the best interests for your family. Unfortunately there are often reasons why things are done is what appear to be over complicated ways. The average home owner doesn't need to know these reasons to live in the hosue but MUST learn about them if any changes, additions or improvements are to be made.

The rain water pipe on the wall may not go into the sewer system. It may go into a storm water system and be discharged into a nearby stream. It may even just go to a soak away under your garden or some open ground nearby.

There are rogue people who call themselves tradesmen and trades women. These are the ones you hear about. The honest hardworking and properly skilled tradespeople seldom make headine news.

What worries me enormously is that you certainly do not have sufficient awareness of the dangers to health that your DIY toilet waste has created for you and your family and possibly other people whose drainage shares underground pipes with your waste.

Given that lack of awareness on sewage I have to wonder if your awareness of floor loading on loft conversions, electrical safety and other aspects of installing a room in the loft are adequate to ensure the conversion is safe.

Have you put your floor onto the existing joist in the loft ?

Very often the joists in a loft are only designed to support the weight of a ceiling. While they may take the weight that you have added they will have bent under that load and the ends on the walls will have moved slightly and will continue to move as weight changes ( as you go in and out of the loft ) This will wear away the vital support that the walls provide to the joist and will re-shape the end of the joist and thus further weaken the support.

You MUST ask the building control officer to advise you on the way to inspect the loft conversion and take his advice. He will NOT try to make you do any un-necessary work but will do his or her best to help you make safe anything that is dangerous. Building control officers may provide help with finding good reliable trades people ( they are not supposed to but to help out the person in trouble recovering from ill informed DIY they often will ).

Bernard

PS my wife and I self built our own house manyyears ago and at all time found the building control officer the most helpful and most informed person. Very strict about those matters where our safety was in question but on all other matters extremely helpful, flexible and even lenient. His advice was invaluable to the quality of the house we still live in.

 

[tekkiesteve]

Re; the coach trip, theres a Nicholls avenue in Hillingdon?????

 

[Softus]

just trying to keep it simple, from now on i will use technical buzz words so the next reply will be "what do you mean by xxxx..."

It's a technical forum, and there's something wrong with you if you can't write "soil" instead of "poo" and "rainwater" instead of "grey". Unless you're some kind of illiterate stockbroker or somefink.

However, now that you've drawn my attention to it, I'll add some definitions to the relevant Wiki section.

My Gutters and bath/sink all join together before disappearing underground, in a 1930's built house. However, both of my toilets discharge into a soil stack.....

You're being obtuse.

Firstly, the Water Regulations (to my knowledge) aren't retrospective, so a change in the rules doesn't mean that every house and drainage system in the land has to be modified, merely the new and altered ones.

Secondly, the fact that your Fluid Category 3 (slight health hazard) waste pipes go underground independently of the soil stack (Fluid Category 4) doesn't mean that they're draining into a rainwater drainage system.

Thirdly, it's permissible to drain rainwater into the public sewer - many systems do exactly this. However, many systems drain the surface water into the local water course, and thence into local streams and rivers, which is precisely why you shouldn't put anything into a rainwater system other than unadulterated rainwater.

 

[IJWS15]

Having put up, or assisted with, several DIY extensions (including some deep holes for drains) I would suggest being honest with the BCO.

You are likely to be seeing a great deal of him over the next few months so the last thing you want is for him to think you are not telling him porkies . . . . . . . . .

If you get on the wrong side of him the least he could do is ensure you work rigidly to every regulation that applies. Be honest with him and he will guide you through what needs to be done and (from my experience) what you can get away with.

 

[stem]

Regarding the illegal loft conversion,

Unless I've missed something, which is quite possible due to the extensive posts on this tread, but I don't remember the OP saying he had converted his loft. I used to live in a house of similar age and style and it was built with a loft bedroom as were all the others in the street. The OP just said he'd moved up there as the lower floor was full.