EV charger - specifics included

[0Floz0]

Hi

Pretty far down the line with getting an EV charger installed. I’m doing what I can DIY. So the following:

Running all the cabling (6mm 3 core swa), connecting it into the charger which is a Wallbox pulsar plus. No need for earth rods as it’s built in. Cable will be run all the way to the consumer unit.

I’ve attached a picture of the consumer unit and where the main cable comes into the house (on wall adjacent to consumer unit). Assume that I’ll need an rcbo?

I’m aware I’ll need a qualified electrician to connect to consumer unit and fill in the forms. I’ve only got a 60A fuse so need that upgrading.

What rcbo would you recommend?

How much time do you think it would take an electrician to do all the testing, forms and certification? What’s a reasonable going rate for that work in Warwickshire?

Thanks

 

[ericmark]

It does say

In the UK region, the PME system with an incoming earthing point is widely used by residential and business electricity consumers.
The RCCB does not provide protection against open circuit PME faults, so touch voltage hazards could occur without triggering a disconnection of the mains electricity supply to the building.

Earthing Protection
This section outlines the information for installation of Wallbox Pulsar Plus in the UK region.
To follow and be compliant with the regulations specified by IET in clause 722.411.4.1(iv), Wallbox Pulsar Plus uses a technology that enables you to directly connect your charger to a PME supply.
The Wallbox Pulsar Plus UK charger now includes a safety monitoring system to detect potential earth-neutral faults.
If faults are detected in the circuit, the charge cycle ends thus isolating the vehicle from the power supply.
This removes the risk of touching the vehicle and a potential shock if earth-neutral fault is present.

But it also says

Ensure that the maximum voltage is less than 264 V between L & N inputs.

Which does not line up with having a safety monitoring system as normally the voltage is 207 to 253, and it refers to Part Numbers and setting up, plus I think the latest edition included some changes, so although it was permitted to fit these, does not mean it is still permitted. Fitting charging points is a specialist job, and as a run of the mill electrician I would not fit them. I would need to go on further training.

In the main electricians will have their favourites, which they know without re-reading all the instructions or registering with other firms to install it. I would not want to take over a job some one else had started, and if I did would want to see all the paperwork including completion or compliance certificates.

The RCD you have is a type AC

but not sure if that consumer unit is the high integrity type with a third neutral rail, so not sure if a RCBO can be fitted, but that RCD is not suitable. Also only rated 63 amp. Plus it is plastic, so clearly old, so up to the person signing all the paperwork to if he feels that it OK for the extra load.

What you are asking are design questions, and who ever designs the installation has to sign to say he has designed it, there are installation certificates with three signatures, but to use them, would need to go through LABC not using a scheme member electricians, which will likely end up more expensive.

As a retired electrician I would not fit my own EV charging point, simply not worth the hassle with the LABC and getting it all signed off, that's if the LABC would allow me to DIY to start with, even with my C&G 2391 they wanted when fitting my mothers wet room to call in at my expense some one to test and inspect my work. I did in the end get them to accept my signature, but so much hassle next time I used a scheme member.

 

[0Floz0]

It does say
But it also says Which does not line up with having a safety monitoring system as normally the voltage is 207 to 253, and it refers to Part Numbers and setting up, plus I think the latest edition included some changes, so although it was permitted to fit these, does not mean it is still permitted. Fitting charging points is a specialist job, and as a run of the mill electrician I would not fit them. I would need to go on further training.

In the main electricians will have their favourites, which they know without re-reading all the instructions or registering with other firms to install it. I would not want to take over a job some one else had started, and if I did would want to see all the paperwork including completion or compliance certificates.

The RCD you have is a type AC View attachment 275263 but not sure if that consumer unit is the high integrity type with a third neutral rail, so not sure if a RCBO can be fitted, but that RCD is not suitable. Also only rated 63 amp. Plus it is plastic, so clearly old, so up to the person signing all the paperwork to if he feels that it OK for the extra load.

What you are asking are design questions, and who ever designs the installation has to sign to say he has designed it, there are installation certificates with three signatures, but to use them, would need to go through LABC not using a scheme member electricians, which will likely end up more expensive.

As a retired electrician I would not fit my own EV charging point, simply not worth the hassle with the LABC and getting it all signed off, that's if the LABC would allow me to DIY to start with, even with my C&G 2391 they wanted when fitting my mothers wet room to call in at my expense some one to test and inspect my work. I did in the end get them to accept my signature, but so much hassle next time I used a scheme member.

Thank you. Appreciate the detailed response. I’ve added what’s hopefully a better photo. Depends if the forum reduces the quality though.

How would I figure out if it’s the high integrity type? Can’t seem to find a model number on it anywhere. Must be on the side next to the wall.

Can you not just change the breakers rather than the whole consumer unit? Or would you then need to uprate the main breaker as well?

 

[ericmark]

I am an industrial/commercial electrician, so have not really worked with the type tested distribution units called consumer units, as mainly work with three phase.

In the top of this CU

there are three neutral bars and an earth bar, so you can have two RCD's and some RCBO's, but without that extra neutral bar you would need to remove on RCD and replace it with all RCBO's this can be done but the cost goes up.

At some point one has to consider if better to swap the whole consumer unit, and add SPD etc. You are in the design stage, which is likely the hardest bit, I opted with my own house for all RCBO's, mainly as just before moving last house the RCD tripped and I lost 2 freezers full of food, which cost a lot more than going for an all RCBO CU.

We are told around 300 cases of loss of PEN per annum, and 10% causes injury so 30 people a year, which is rather low, but we did not have some many EV charging points, or hot tubs when the statistics were complied, in my working life I have come across just one loss of PEN in the UK, many when working in Algeria but not UK.

But when reading court cases I often feel there by grace of god go I, we all hope it will not happen to us, but it could, and what we want is for insurance to cover when it all goes wrong. Should the postman, milkman, or other legitimate caller touch your car and get a shock, you want to be covered for any claim.

The hospitals are duty bound to report electric shocks to the HSE, who once they get there teeth into things don't let go, so they will go through all your paperwork ensuring no short cuts were taken. Again only once have I had the HSE involved and it was shown I did nothing wrong, however the big question, is DIY really worth it?

I do see the problem, the government rules mean an EV vehicle provided by the company as a company car does not impact on your income tax, and as a second car the EV therefore makes a lot of sense, and we don't want huge expense to charge a car which is not your own, in my home where the cars are parked behind the house so visitors don't pass them, I would likely take a chance.

 

[Risteard]

None of this is a DIY job. Cease and desist immediately.

 

[ericmark]

None of this is a DIY job. Cease and desist immediately.

I would agree, however think we need to point out why, we make it look so easy, walk up to an installation and we work out what is required mainly by observations, so easy to forget when one has plugged in a loop impedance tester a 1000 times, one has a good idea what to expect.

 

[0Floz0]

For clarification, the only part I'm DIY'ing is the cabling run so up to (but not connected to) the consumer unit and then outside to the charge point (and connecting it to the charger). So what I was after was how much time it would take an electrician to come and sort it that part. I'm fine with getting a new consumer unit if that's necessary and the cost effective route. Appreciate you'd need to see the set up to recommend a suitable unit but typically, what tends to be your go to consumer unit when replacing a system like this? Is installation cost quite high?

I'm an engineer myself so although not an expert I'm not completely clueless when it comes to wiring and I know what I shouldn't be touching, as well as the limits of my multimeter.

 

[Old Salt]

The elctrician who installed mine (wallbox pulsar) took a couple of hours. He had installed most of my wiring and consumer unit so knew the installation. Him and his mate have done them before, certification and informed the DNO.

 

[ericmark]

This is how the certificate can be split up, so you can have 4 signatures, but this certificate is not the one used by scheme members, so if any part of the installation needs to be registered with LABC, you need to do it direct not through the scheme, I don't know English charges as I live in Wales, but Welsh charges at £100 plus vat for first £2000 worth of work, so unless you work will save over a day of work for the electrician it is a non starter.

In real terms installing an EV charging point will normally take less than a day, so simply not worth doing any DIY, if you are first thing is to pay fees to LABC they need to be informed before the job starts, and they will tell you when they want to visit, and this is the big problem, a job which would normally be done in one or two days takes one or two weeks as you have to wait for them to visit before you can progress to next stage.

 

[Vicario]

You might not need to upgrade your fuse. My electrician says he does lots of EVs with 60A fuses. He fits load monitoring where necessary.

 

[ericmark]

You might not need to upgrade your fuse. My electrician says he does lots of EVs with 60A fuses. He fits load monitoring where necessary.

Not with the unit he has selected, I know the Zappi has it, which is why many use them.

The problem is, these people who think they know it all, are especially annoying to those of us that do.

 

[0Floz0]

Not with the unit he has selected, I know the Zappi has it, which is why many use them.

The problem is, these people who think they know it all, are especially annoying to those of us that do.

Yeah isn’t that the main breaker fuse rather than the breaker on the consumer unit. I’ll be getting the main breaker upgraded anyway as I hear it’s the responsibility of the power company (western power) so not expecting to have to pay for it.

View attachment 275345
View attachment 275346
This is how the certificate can be split up, so you can have 4 signatures, but this certificate is not the one used by scheme members, so if any part of the installation needs to be registered with LABC, you need to do it direct not through the scheme, I don't know English charges as I live in Wales, but Welsh charges at £100 plus vat for first £2000 worth of work, so unless you work will save over a day of work for the electrician it is a non starter.

In real terms installing an EV charging point will normally take less than a day, so simply not worth doing any DIY, if you are first thing is to pay fees to LABC they need to be informed before the job starts, and they will tell you when they want to visit, and this is the big problem, a job which would normally be done in one or two days takes one or two weeks as you have to wait for them to visit before you can progress to next stage.

I’d not even considered building regs. I’ve got them out for other things so it’s not a huge drama. I use a private one rather than council as they’re just more flexible and quicker to get out.

 

[Taylortwocities]

New circuit = notification to LABC.
So you’ll need a registered electrician who can self-notify.
Is that what you mean by a “private one” ?

 

[0Floz0]

New circuit = notification to LABC.
So you’ll need a registered electrician who can self-notify.
Is that what you mean by a “private one” ?

Ah. Didn’t realise they could self notify. Comment above made me think you’d need to engage with them separately.

No, I meant a private building regs company as opposed to the council run one.

 

[ericmark]

No, I meant a private building regs company as opposed to the council run one.

No such thing, the scheme provider can be a go between between the electrician and LABC, but not one can replace the LABC.