Self Install Ev Charger

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Ihmix, 3 Dec 2021.

  1. Ihmix

    Ihmix

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    7FB01D27-2BCE-4A37-B5F9-A27CACEA96BC.jpeg 6E7C1BA1-5AED-430A-95C7-C299444C1D23.jpeg 162BCA44-851A-4E5F-AB3D-A7550217D90B.jpeg Evening all,

    I am looking to install a 7kw Ev charger and just wanted to know if this is possible with the current setup I have.

    The house is just over three years old and the garage cu currently has the usual 2 rcd 1 16a and 1 6a. The cable feeding this is a 6mm 3 core cable which I believe is good enough to supply a 7kw Ev charger.

    I currently have a 80a fuse in the electric box and not electric shower in the house.

    firstly is it possible to install the Ev charger without upgrading the cable. I have attached a photo of the cable, I realise I will need to upgrade the garage cu and adjust the home consumer unit by moving the rcd and upgrading it from its current 32a rating. I also have 4 spare ways in the consumer unit as it was recently upgraded.

    any thought would be very much appreciated.

    oh looking to install the Anderson Ev.

    Thanks
     
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  3. ericmark

    ericmark

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    The Part P regulations do allow you to register work and if the LABC inspector feels you have the skill you can DIY.

    However by time you have paid the LABC and kissed good by to the grant not sure if worth while.

    First you need the reading to work out if earth and volt drop etc is within limits. And you need to work out what to do about earthing.

    So as it stands not a clue what would need doing, but you need to sign the installing certificate so if you don't know then you have not got the skill required.

    Go to IET web site down load the free forms, and see if you know how to fill them in.
     
  4. Ihmix

    Ihmix

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    Thanks for your quick reply ericmark I would do as you suggest.
     
  5. Adam_151

    Adam_151

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    Have you a wider shot of the house board?

    Generally you'd be looking to ensure that the supply to the garage is not on any RCD (provided its not T/E in wall at any point, and install is not TT), and replace the garage board with one that has a main switch and a type A rcbo for each cirucit, preferably one that breaks the neutral as well as the line (IIRC wylex and Cp fusebox do, but hager don't). The DP breaking is not such an issue if there is a second RCD in the chargepoint that does this.

    I would say, its not a DIY job though, no harm in understanding what needs to happen, but to check the protection on the chargepoint for example requires equipment that a DIYer would not have
     
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  6. winston1

    winston1

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  7. BlueLoo

    BlueLoo

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    An alternative might be to use the supplied granny charger with its 16a commando plug and fit that plug in the garage.
    Not a dedicated EV Charger, not as safe as a dedicated ev charger and likely to not as flexible as a dedicated ev Charger but its legal, doable and reasonable.

    Which, i would argue, installing an ev Charger yourself isnt....
     
  8. Ihmix

    Ihmix

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  9. flameport

    flameport

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    The Hager consumer unit will require some rearrangement internally, so the garage is on it's own non-RCD circuit.
    The garage consumer unit is unsuitable and will need to be replaced.

    The 6mm² cable may be suitable, depending on length and how it's installed. Also depends on what else is used in the garage.
    Andersen charge point (and many others) require a 40A RCBO as the protective device.

    There are far too many unknowns to give any more suggestions.
     
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  11. ericmark

    ericmark

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    This is the real point, we are all guessing, not only about what you already have, but what you intend to install. There are many chargers available, the ones fixed to the wall come under EV charger regulations, but the plug in type can do the same thing, but get around the rules, you can get plug in types from around 2.2 kW to 7 kW. The 2.2 kW considered as granny charger and you could be looking at over 24 hours to fully charge and use a 13 Amp outlet. But you can also get chargers that plug into a 32 amp outlet these can also give 7 kW but can be selected so when you put it on charge you select the charge rate.

    There are three problems with EVSE chargers.
    1) Under fault conditions will it make the car live.
    2) Under fault conditions will it stop RCD protection working.
    3) Can it overload the house supply and blow the incoming fuse.

    There are some other considerations, like the DNO should have to give permission, we have heard with some supply types where the DNO has not given permission, and having them linked to the DNO so the DNO can reduce load when there is a high demand, but first lets look at the three point.

    1) With a TT supply no real problem, and should not be a problem with TN-S although hard to be sure a supply is TN-S and not TN-C-S, with TN-C-S also sometimes called PME, if for example road works damage the supply cable the earth to the house may not be a true earth, if the car is being charged inside a garage this should not be a problem, but if charged outside some one can touch true earth and supply earth at the same time and get a shock. There are a few ways around the problem which include auto disconnection of first lives (that's line and neutral) then the earth if a test probe shows difference or if voltage goes out of the 207 to 253 volt range, or if far enough from the house make the installation TT. The installer needs to do a risk assessment and select method to be used.

    2) DC can freeze a RCD specially the type AC, the type A can also freeze, but if a unit auto disconnects if it senses over 6 mA DC then type A can be used, otherwise type B is required, and type B are very expensive and not available as single module width RCBO's (RCBO is MCB and RCD combined).

    3) Some units have a current transformer which goes on the incoming supply, and can auto turn down the output when it approaches a set limit.

    Some of the requirements are built into the charger, and some your supply, and it depends on the make and model of charger what you need to supply, so electricians go on special courses to fit EV charge points, to ensure installed safely.

    As it stands there is nothing to stop you fitting a 32 amp socket upload_2021-12-3_22-21-14.png and using a plug in 7 kW charger. The same socket could power a welding set, or other power hungry appliance, so it is not classed as an EV charging point, but can be used as one. A previous thread has details in a garage as shown unlikely to be a problem, but if the car is charged outside then it could result in a very nasty shock.

    In Wales where I live outside sockets are notifiable, but that has been removed for England, not sure about Scotland etc.

    But the main thing is are you willing to take a chance? Years ago around 1992 I fitted all RCD protection because I wanted to protect my 14 year old son who had taken and passed his RAE radio exam to become a radio ham. No one said I must, but I wanted to protect him.

    As to when the car can be touched by the general public, milkman, post woman, or any other caller to the house, there would need to be a court case, and having read some of the reports it is unclear who would be blamed, unlikely your insurance would cover, so likely you would be made bankrupt.

    I have wondered a few times if the work is notified, would the LABC be liable? They are suppose to be responsible for site safety for any work they monitor.

    But clearly paperwork is required, if you make a mistake and it is not documented as the owner your liable, so you need to show you took are reasonable steps.

    An EICR may shift the blame, but would it pass? And by the time you have paid the LABC for the work, and bought all the test equipment, likely it will cost you more than using a registered EV supply installer.
     
  12. jelliottelectrical

    jelliottelectrical

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    As above you do need to declare an EV charger installation to the DNO. There are other considerations like if your supply is looped. You cannot connect a 7kw charger to a looped supply, though I believe the DNO is obliged to unloop supplies on request within a certain timeframe
     
  13. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    We have several EV chargers in our street and we are pretty much all looped.

    I know of a building divided into 3 flats on a looped supply

    This pair on the end of the loop even share a cutout fuse
    [​IMG] and that building is sporting 3 EV chargers.
     
    Last edited: 3 Dec 2021
  14. jelliottelectrical

    jelliottelectrical

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    I would guess then that either the DNO has not been informed or if they have they are not bothered.

    Certainly any chargers fitted under the grant scheme have to be notified to the DNO and proof of this is sent in with the grant application otherwise they don’t pay! I can’t remember who insists the chargers are not fitted to a looped supply, I know on the course you are told not to, unless it is a local rule
     
  15. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    I spoke with our DNO earlier this year on an unrelated matter and while on phone asked as we are looped, He seemed to say it was down to the installer to assess.
     
  16. jelliottelectrical

    jelliottelectrical

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    Down to the installer to assess if it is looped or not, or safe to fit an EV on a looped supply?

    I would say neither is in the remit of any installer, both would be down to the DNO

    When surveying for EV points, one of the things to check for is if the supply appears to be looped, this is then referred to the DNO to verify and they advise on the next steps

    which are usually

    1) unloop the supply, but if the charger is to be fitted in the meantime it must be restricted to 16amp
    2) carry on, subject to a site visit to determine the cable type, size etc

    Presumably in your case, either the DNO have not been notified, which may cause issues somewhere along the line, or the have consented to the current setup being suitable
     
  17. AndyPRK

    AndyPRK

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    A 3 year old house is unlikely to be looped

    crank on
     
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