Evacuation of High Rise Flats

[Deleted member 63160]

Hansard is a precise transcription of what was said on the debate.

John D finds those facts a little difficult because they disprove what he says, therefore he has decided they are "fake news"

 

[JohnD]

This is what he (mwatson) actually said.

inspectors found over 1000 fire doors had been removed by tenants

It is not what Hansard says

 

[mwatsonxx]

Did you make that up, or find it on some reputable news source? Or a disreputable one? Show us.

 

[JohnD]

It is not what you said. mwatson

inspectors found over 1000 fire doors had been removed by tenants

So I suppose you made it up (as I suspected)

 

[JohnD]

Does the evidence state that the fire doors were removed by tenants? I can't see that bit.

No, it doesn't. Made up by mwatson?

 

[mwatsonxx]

Oh I see, you object to me accusing the tenants. Of course it wan't the tenants, it was the fire door fairies. Apologies.

 

[bernardgreen]

There were problems with gas pipe insulation, some stairways were not accessible and there were breaches of internal walls. Most astonishingly, literally hundreds of fire doors were missing. Camden Council itself estimates that it needs at least 1,000 fire doors because they were missing from those five blocks. That has nothing to do with the cladding. Something has clearly gone drastically wrong there. These issues need to be looked at very carefully to find out why this is happening in this day and age in our country.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Oh I see, you object to me accusing the tenants. Of course it wan't the tenants, it was the fire door fairies. Apologies.

It is a disgusting suggestion to infer that the tenants removed the fire doors, especially in the light of the Tenants Associations complaints:

“[The KCTMO] doesn’t spend enough on safety. The windows don’t work. They put in new doors after the fire last October, but you can see daylight around the edge.” It did not look fireproof, they said.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ngton-chelsea-tenants-management-organisation

 

[mwatsonxx]

It is a disgusting suggestion to infer that the tenants removed the fire doors, especially in the light of the Tenants Associations complaints:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ngton-chelsea-tenants-management-organisation

The anarchist John mcdonnel would be proud of you. The rest of us laugh at you.

 

[Doggit]

Tenants may disable the automatic closing mechansms on the fire doors, but very very few would be capable of changing a door. Most private landlords would know the legislation, so wouldn't remove the fire door, although there would always be a few that would for aesthetic purposes.

But Savid Javid said that they needed 1000 fire doors for 5 blocks, and at 127 flats in the Grenfell block, that means that every flat has taken out at least 1 door, and I certainly can't see that happening, so the comments from the tenants association seem more relevant.

Those tenants that have decided to stay, are actually in a far safer position, as the odds of a fire starting, are now much lower with less people in the blocks. I'd have stayed.

As the leader of K&C council has had to resign, I can see why there's a knee jerk reaction going on from Camden councils leader.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

The anarchist John mcdonnel would be proud of you. The rest of us laugh at you.

Is that your considered counter-argument?
Hansard said:

When the commissioners went into those tower blocks in Camden, they found, in their own words, multiple fire safety inspection failures, which, frankly, should not have happened in tower blocks of any type, and certainly not in those tower blocks in Camden. There were problems with gas pipe insulation, some stairways were not accessible and there were breaches of internal walls. Most astonishingly, literally hundreds of fire doors were missing. Camden Council itself estimates that it needs at least 1,000 fire doors because they were missing from those five blocks.

Quite clearly it could have been the tenants, or it could have been the contractors who were responsible for the missing fire doors.
It is also obvious that the tenants were not responsible for the problems with gas pipe insulation, stairways not being accessible and breaches of internal walls.
Just how watson and firedhand can be so offensive as to blame the tenants for these failures indicates their sick minds that they display no sympathy with the victims of this dreadful tragedy. Instead they exploit the situation to pursue their divisive politics.

 

[mwatsonxx]

Just how watson and firedhand can be so offensive as to blame the tenants for these failures indicates their sick minds that they display no sympathy with the victims of this dreadful tragedy.

The dreadful tragedy was in kensington. My comments relate to flats in Camden where there has not been a tragedy.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

The dreadful tragedy was in kensington. My comments relate to flats in Camden where there has not been a tragedy.

The two are obviously linked. The safety concerns were only raised in Camden due to the tragedy in Kensington.

 

[JohnD]

I suppose mwatson will blame the tenants for this as well...

"Grenfell Tower gas pipes left exposed, despite fire safety expert's orders

Council expert said pipes serving flats must be protected with fire-retardant boxing but, by time of fire, two-thirds were still bare"

"Kensington and Chelsea council declined to comment on the warnings about the gas pipes from the leaseholders group."

Yeah, I bet they did.

 

[bernardgreen]

Quite clearly it could have been the tenants, or it could have been the contractors who were responsible for the missing fire doors.

Tenants have been discovered to have made significant changes to their homes without notifying the letting agency / owner / landlord. Many of these changes have reduced or eliminated the fire resistance in the home and / or the entire building.

Removing self closure devices on fire doors
Replacing fire resistant front doors with "attractive" but combustable doors ( allows fire to invade the escape route for other tenants ).
Renoving internal doors
Removing internal walls to create open plan living.
Installing electric shower ( at least one burnt out consumer unit and subsequent fire damage )