exchanging contracts? internal wall removed without planning

[Homeuser]

Hi,

I'm a first time buyer. I need your advice. I'm in the process of buying a house and survey and serches are completed. Just now my solicitor told me:

From Solicitor:
I would like to point out at this time that the seller does not have planning permission or building regulation approval for the annex in the garden, new windows, new boiler or electrical work commissioned and I have a suspicion they will not have planning permission or building regulation for the side and rear extension and internal alterations as revealed by the survey report.

In light of this, the seller has agreed to provide indemnity insurance for lack of planning permission and building regulation approval. Indemnity Insurance only gives protection against enforcement action by the Council, but not against structural failures or other inadequacies of construction.

It is important therefore that you decide whether as far as you are concerned there is a concern about the quality of the work. You must satisfy yourself with regards to the workmanship of this alteration.
The property has solid masonry internal walls. These have a mixture of finishes.

Survey report:
The walls are in good structural order with no evidence of any significant disrepair.Internal walls on the ground floor have been removed but we cannot confirm if loads have been properly redistributed. Although there are no obvious signs of failure this work may well have needed Building Regulation approval. We therefore refer you to our advice in Section I in this respect. In the absence of any consents or proper supervision, there is a risk that further support may be needed incurring additional expense and disturbance.


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I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do here. House is not cheap and expensive what're the points I need to consider? should I go ahead or not?
Thanks in advance,

 

[RogerBoyle]

End of the day it matters not what I or anyone else on here thinks Its you that's buying it . You need to decide if you can live with the possibility of action from the council and poor build/Quality of Workmanship

I personally would pull out as I would be concerned with the quality of the build . And remember Insurance companies will try anything to not pay.

Planning permissions etc. Are not a new phenomenon and unfortunately my experience has been that when Permissions haven't been gotten the build is usually shoddy at best (the term silk purse from a sows ear often springs to mind)
It may well be that the build exceeds what is required but if it did why wasn't planning sought in the first place...

 

[Homeuser]

Yes, I need to decide at the end of the day. We like the property. We don't know the problems/issues without planning permission hence asking for suggestions before taking final decision.

Thanks,

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

When were all of these elements of work carried out? Need some more info so photo’s, condition of extensions, any cracks, age of house, etc etc, does the price you have agreed on thus far reflect any of these irregularities? Could all have been done OK or could be a world of pain you are entering. And potentially life threatening if the boiler has been bodged. Structurally (unless there are cracks or similar evident) it’s probably OK any structural problems would have probably arisen by now, depending when the works were done. You will also have these issues raised when you come to sell.

As your solicitor has pointed out already the Insurance is a moot point really, which will not cover any workmanship problems you may encounter over the years.

 

[Homeuser]

Thanks for the information! I appreciate it.

1930 - The property has been extended to the side and the rear.
The date of these extensions is not known.

The curent seller lived in the property for 13 years and they say this extension was done before they moved in. I just came to know about the lack of planning permission so I've not discussed about the price yet and price doesn't reflect any findings in survey and solictor report. I don't have photos right now but I can try to get the photos.

given that it was done long back is that OK to consider? or is tehre anything I need to consider before going back to selelr/Agent?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

End of the day it matters not what I or anyone else on here thinks Its you that's buying it . You need to decide if you can live with the possibility of action from the council and poor build/Quality of Workmanship

I personally would pull out as I would be concerned with the quality of the build . And remember Insurance companies will try anything to not pay.

Planning permissions etc. Are not a new phenomenon and unfortunately my experience has been that when Permissions haven't been gotten the build is usually shoddy at best (the term silk purse from a sows ear often springs to mind)
It may well be that the build exceeds what is required but if it did why wasn't planning sought in the first place...

You might be buying a house with nasty structural problems.

You might find that the indemnity insurance is insufficient to pay for remedial work or worthless.

You might find that the council order the extensions to be removed for planning violations (the indemnity policy you have is only for Building Regulations issues).

If you do decide to walk away, an excellent public interest act you could do (before formally abandoning the purchase) would be to write to the council to ask them about BR and PP approvals.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

[You might be buying a house with nasty structural problems.

You might find that the indemnity insurance is insufficient to pay for remedial work or worthless.

You might find that the council order the extensions to be removed for planning violations (the indemnity policy you have is only for Building Regulations issues).

If you do decide to walk away, an excellent public interest act you could do (before formally abandoning the purchase) would be to write to the council to ask them about BR and PP approvals.

Or it could have all been done years ago and been done OK, the solicitor has already informed him that the indemnity will not cover workmanship, if the extensions were done done more than 4 years ago he is immune from enforcement from the planners anyway, assuming it needed planning permission anyway. Please try not to inflame the situation and educate yourself a bit more before you know the facts eh? I expect the OP is already having sleepless nights!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So if built 13 years ago it will be immune from prosecution then, from planning anyway. So a closer inspection and some photos is in order, it should be pretty obvious if the extension is 2 years old or over 13 years. No point talking about price until you have more information. Lay your cards on the table with the agent and say you want to know everything the sellers can tell you, if they want to sell they will be forthcoming, meet them at the property to discuss and take notes. Question the age of the boiler, get some photos of it and note the model No. when you go round. If you are a first time buyer and presumably have a mortgage in principle then the chances are you hold the upper hand so hold your nerve.

 

[Homeuser]

Yes, Morgage has been approved. survey and searches also completed. They only told me about planning permission today. As I'm first time buyer, came here for suggestions.

Thanks for all your inputs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Or it could have all been done years ago and been done OK, the solicitor has already informed him that the indemnity will not cover workmanship, if the extensions were done done more than 4 years ago he is immune from enforcement from the planners anyway, assuming it needed planning permission anyway. Please try not to inflame the situation and educate yourself a bit more before you know the facts eh? I expect the OP is already having sleepless nights!

I'm not trying to inflame the situation.

You obviously are having problems properly reading what I wrote, so I'll add some assistance for you.

You might be buying a house with nasty structural problems.

You might find that the indemnity insurance is insufficient to pay for remedial work or worthless.

You might find that the council order the extensions to be removed for planning violations (the indemnity policy you have is only for Building Regulations issues).

Can you see those words now?

 

[geraldthehamster]

Thanks for the information! I appreciate it.

1930 - The property has been extended to the side and the rear.
The date of these extensions is not known.

The curent seller lived in the property for 13 years and they say this extension was done before they moved in. I just came to know about the lack of planning permission so I've not discussed about the price yet and price doesn't reflect any findings in survey and solictor report. I don't have photos right now but I can try to get the photos.

given that it was done long back is that OK to consider? or is tehre anything I need to consider before going back to selelr/Agent?

There is a four year limit for planning enforcement if the extension was built without a planning application. If it was done over 13 years ago, it now effectively has permission.

Likewise Building Control enforcement is usually one year or two years, depending on which section of the Act is used (though if it was actually dangerous that would be another matter).

So I would be more concerned over whether the work was safe or not. If there's no sign of movement it may well be. You could get a structural engineer to look at it.

One thing though - if this work really was done before the owner moved in, is it the case that no permissions were obtained, or does he just have no record of them?

Cheers
Richard

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

blah blah blah

OK flame boy, stick to something you know something about eh?

 

[tony1851]

If it was done over 13 years ago, it now effectively has permission.

Strictly speaking - no.

All that the 4-year rule confers is a defence in a possible enforcement action. If he wanted to get it 100% lawful, he would need to apply for a LDC, but the onus would be on OP to prove that it had been built more than 4 years ago.

One advantage of having a LDC is that when he comes to sell, the lack of an initial planning approval won't be a problem for future buyers.

 

[geraldthehamster]

All that the 4-year rule confers is a defence in a possible enforcement action.

An effective defence, though, surely? Assuming, as you say, that it can be proved the development is more than 4 years old.

Cheers
Richard

 

[ban-all-sheds]

blah blah blah

OK flame boy, stick to something you know something about eh?

I see.

So, having been caught out making unjustified criticisms, that's how you respond, it it?

Care to compound your egregious error by failing to explain, rationally, why I was wrong when I said he might be buying a house with nasty structural problems, or might find that the indemnity insurance is insufficient to pay for remedial work or worthless, or might find that the council order the extensions to be removed for planning violations?

Regarding the latter, you might like to consider that my post had the same timestamp as the one from the OP telling us how old the work is, so there's no way I could have known that when I wrote it.