Extending a ring main

[gash2024]

I am currently in the process of redecorating and fitting a new kitchen but as i would like to move the sink and add a few more sockets i would like to know if the work i would like doing can be done.
I have two single sockets that are fed by two wires (ring main?) and what looks to be a separate earth wire which i would like blanking of and these wires extending below the worktop before they will route to the right of the boiler. The first socket will be a double under the worktop for appliances, the second will be above the worktop and be for smaller appliances and finally a single socket will be needed up the wall for a cooker hood.

I am presuming that the two wires what looks to be a separate earth core are the ring main so this can be extended from the sockets that i wish to have blanked off, if this is the case the additional sockets will be on the main circuit so they will not be spurs?

I have added a few photos to help, enjoy previous cabinet installers drilling as he almost went through the boiler feed conduit and he did go through the 40A cooker conduit but thankfully not the cable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hosted photos are no bigger - can't read the labels.

If the red lines indicate proposed cable routes they are completely unacceptable - the sort of thing which can, and has, killed.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

 

[gash2024]

Sorry about the photos i didn't expect them to be that small.
the red lines are the routes that the current cables take which i presume are not that great because some are diagonal.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The first thing you need to do is confirm whether it is a ring final circuit or not.
Don't be fooled in to thinking that because two cables are terminated at sockets that this is a ring final circuit, could quite as easily be a radial or even spurred sockets.
Even if you find two cables in either a 32A or 30A protective device at the distribution board, you cannot automatically assume it to be feeding a ring final circuit or whether the ring final is complete, without breaks.
The only correct method of identifying the circuit, is by using the correct test procedures.

 

[gash2024]

Can you tell me how an electrician would test for this and does it involve taking up any floorboards e.t.c
the house was built in 1986 and it has an old style consumer unit with fuses.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the red lines are the routes that the current cables take which i presume are not that great because some are diagonal.

You don't need to presume - you've read the Wiki article.

Can you tell me how an electrician would test for this and does it involve taking up any floorboards e.t.c

With instruments, and no.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Can you tell me how an electrician would test for this and does it involve taking up any floorboards e.t.c

An electrician would confirm the the ring final circuit, by performing continuity tests on the the circuit. There would be no need to remove floorboards to perform these tests.

the house was built in 1986 and it has an old style consumer unit with fuses.

If the circuits are not protected by 30mA RCD, then any newly routed cable buried less than 50mm within wall, will require RCD protection, unless mechanically protected (metal capping is not considered as mechanical protection).
Also any newly installed socket outlets will require RCD protection regardless of depth of cable.
There are also regulation on depth of chases allowed within solid walls:
No greater than 1/6th on horizontal chases and 1/3rd on vertical chases of the thickness of the leaf/skin of the wall being chased.

 

[gash2024]

Thankfully the wall is plastered thermolight blocks so there should enough there.
just out of interest as i wish to have the two single sockets removed and if the wires are part of the final ring circuit then would it be possible to have an inline breaker like the sort you see above hand dryers?
also does all of the wiring have to buried or can i have some of it in that round conduit behind the units.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You need to talk over the options, and discuss what you'd like, with your electrician.

 

[rjm2k]

enjoy previous cabinet installers drilling as he almost went through the boiler feed conduit and he did go through the 40A cooker conduit but thankfully not the cable.

Your requirements and current setup are not very clear at all, however one thing I would do is tell your previous installer to read up on safe zones (even if you fell out) as he's clearly clueless and it may save his life, the safe zone above that cooker socket includes the full width of the socket all the way up!

Out of interest, are you sure that 40A cable isn't damaged at all?

 

[gash2024]

I have had a look at the cable and it is a wide conduit so thankfully you can see the side of the cable and that it is not damaged and a good distance away from the hole.
I was hoping that i could find out if i could have the work done by adding a pici as i have been waiting on two electricians to come and look at the kitchen but much to my disappointment neither has come to my property or contacted me back

 

[Greenie9657]

Can you tell me how an electrician would test for this and does it involve taking up any floorboards e.t.c
the house was built in 1986 and it has an old style consumer unit with fuses.

Im sure someone will shoot me down here mate as im just a DIYer like yourself but to test whether or not its a ring, turn power off, remove wires from the back of the socket, put power back and and do voltage checks between the neutral and live. If there is voltage on both cables then chances are that its ring main. Im sure it will be. I did my kitchen when i first moved into my house and i had the same. As i investigated i found had a spur from a spur (which is proper wrong) so it had 2 cables going to it but obviously one was dead when both were disconnected.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Im sure someone will shoot me down here mate

BANG! BANG!

as im just a DIYer like yourself but to test whether or not its a ring, turn power off, remove wires from the back of the socket, put power back and and do voltage checks between the neutral and live. If there is voltage on both cables then chances are that its ring main. Im sure it will be. I did my kitchen when i first moved into my house and i had the same. As i investigated i found had a spur from a spur (which is proper wrong) so it had 2 cables going to it but obviously one was dead when both were disconnected.

That's NOT the way to do it.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Gash

Why have you duplicated your topic?

//www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/extending-a-ring-main.364218/

 

[rjm2k]

Im sure someone will shoot me down here mate as im just a DIYer like yourself

No, leave the power OFF and check for continuity between the 2 lives then the 2 neutrals and then the 2 earths. If they are connected at the other end you will see resistance on a meter, if not then you will see nothing just as you would if the meter probes aren't connected to anything at all.