Extending a socket

[AndyK81144]

Hi,

I have a socket half way up a cavity wall which I wish to move nearer the floor, but the cable is not log enough to move down. It has 2 wires of each colour going into it.

Can I use a 30A connector block with both sets of wires going in and run a single mains wire, behind the wall, to where the new socket will be without the single cable becoming potentially overloaded?
Thanks in advance

Andy

 

[securespark]

Which direction do the existing wires go in?

 

[AndyK81144]

Which direction do the existing wires go in?

They are both coming from the right at chest height and I'll be running the extention straight down to the skirting. All of the walls are stud with plasterboard covering

 

[securespark]

Best to extend both, assuming a ring. Also, you should keep the old box and cover it with a blank plate so the connections are accessible.

OR use an MF junction box.

Have you got RCD protection on the circuit?

 

[AndyK81144]

Best to extend both, assuming a ring. Also, you should keep the old box and cover it with a blank plate so the connections are accessible.

OR use an MF junction box.

Have you got RCD protection on the circuit?

Yes there is RCD protection

I ideally don't want to use a blank plate as it's in the middle of a bedroom wall (there used to be fitted wardrobes up to that point) and I want to wallpaper over it all when done

Here's where I'm at...

Untitled

• AndyK81144
• 12 Jul 2012
• 1

Untitled

• AndyK81144
• 12 Jul 2012
• 1

 

[hammerswinger]

MF junction box = Maintenance Free Junction Box.

I had to look it up so I guess unless your in the trade others may not know what it means either.

Cheers.

 

[Inky Pete]

If you do that then,

a) you won't be able to access the juction box for maintenance - as required by the regs.

and,

b) there will be nothing visible on the wall surface to indicate the change of direction of the cables at that point. (google "cable safe zones" for more info).

Point a) could be got round by using properly made crimp connections instead of a junction box, but you'd still be left with point b).

 

[AndyK81144]

If you do that then,

a) you won't be able to access the juction box for maintenance - as required by the regs.

and,

b) there will be nothing visible on the wall surface to indicate the change of direction of the cables at that point. (google "cable safe zones" for more info).

Point a) could be got round by using properly made crimp connections instead of a junction box, but you'd still be left with point b).

I have no idea where the cables are currently. As you can see from the first image I've added above, they are loose and on the opposite wall, where there is another socket, at skirting level. So at some point they either move down or slope down. It's not ideal, but it's what i'm left with!!

I will probably cover it over and mark on the wall where cabling is as much as I can, before papering. But that's by the by as I really just want to ensure there's not a fire, or some other risk buy extending using the single cable that I've already run through or doubling up as you adviced.

Single would obviously be much easier, but I will double up if as you suggest that would be dangerous.

Thanks for the help

 

[Inky Pete]

I have no idea where the cables are currently. As you can see from the first image I've added above they are loose and on the opposite wall, where there is another socket, at skirting level. So at some point they either move down or slope down. It's not ideal, but it's what i'm left with!!

I would imagine that the cables run horizontally to the corner of the room, within the safe zone created by the existence of the face plate of the old socket. Then they'll run downwards to skirting level within the safe zone which exists 125mm from any corner. Then horizontally again within the safe zone created by the socket that they run to.

I will probably cover it over and mark on the wall where cabling is as much as I can, before papering.

If you do that there will be NO visible indication on the surface of the presence of cables, so there will be NO horizontal safe zone between the corner and the original position of the socket.

But that's by the by as I really just want to ensure there's not a fire, or some other risk buy extending using the single cable that I've already run through or doubling up as you adviced.

If a future owner of the property or a tradesman drills into your hidden cable they will be electrocuted, could die, and YOU would be criminally liable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3735928.stm

 

[AndyK81144]

I understand all of what you've pointed out, but I think the chances of that happening are very remote.

Firstly, I cannot imagine anyone not stopping drilling after going through plasterboard. But if they did they would then need to drill on through a further 15cm or air and polystyrene to reach the wire which I am situating at the back, behind it.

Is there not some sort of protective tubing on the market? That would be useful.

 

[Inky Pete]

I understand all of what you've pointed out, but I think the chances of that happening are very remote.

Firstly, I cannot imagine anyone not stopping drilling after going through plasterboard. But if they did they would then need to drill on through a further 15cm or air and polystyrene to reach the wire which I am situating at the back, behind it.

Is there not some sort of protective tubing on the market? That would be useful.

You obviously haven't read my link.

It can happen. It has happened. And a young mother of 2 died just by touching a metal utensil rack as a result.

The problem is NOT the cable which you are putting in behind the polystyrene - that's in the vertical safe zone created by the socket you're installing.

The problem is the existing horizontal cable which appears to be immediately behing the plasterboard - and which loses its safe zone as soon as you hide the original socket.

Yes, you could look into going the mechanical protection route. But if you're not bothered about breaking the regulations and putting lives at risk by ignoring the advice you've been given then I doubt you'd bother doing mechanical protection properly.

 

[AndyK81144]

I understand all of what you've pointed out, but I think the chances of that happening are very remote.

Firstly, I cannot imagine anyone not stopping drilling after going through plasterboard. But if they did they would then need to drill on through a further 15cm or air and polystyrene to reach the wire which I am situating at the back, behind it.

Is there not some sort of protective tubing on the market? That would be useful.

You obviously haven't read my link.

It can happen. It has happened. And a young mother of 2 died just by touching a metal utensil rack as a result.

The problem is NOT the cable which you are putting in behind the polystyrene - that's in the vertical safe zone created by the socket you're installing.

The problem is the existing horizontal cable which appears to be immediately behing the plasterboard - and which loses its safe zone as soon as you hide the original socket.

Yes, you could look into going the mechanical protection route. But if you're not bothered about breaking the regulations and putting lives at risk by ignoring the advice you've been given then I doubt you'd bother doing mechanical protection properly.

Yes I did read your old link

Yes I am bothered about the regs otherwise I would have gone straight ahead and done by now, so there's no need for the aggresive sarcastic tone.

I have listened to your advice on what my original question was about.
But you haven't come up with a viable answer in regards to not using a plate in the middle of my wall.

I will additionally be adding full details to my home pack and held with with the deeds in regards to the work for any future owners, so that they are informed.

Is the any reason why I cannot run the cable through a metal tube to protect it.

 

[Inky Pete]

Yes you can. But it must be earthed and comply with 17th Edition regulation 522.6.6.

Since you'd have to remove the plasterboard to install such protection it would be easier to just route the cables properly in safe zones (ie. horizontally from the corner at the height of the new socket)

 

[hammerswinger]

From your first picture it looks like the 2 cables come in from the right hand side, why not carefully cut a hole in the wall at the corner and see if you can find the cables, if you can then you could drop them down in the corner and then put the new socket there or cut another hole at the bottom of the corner to get the cables down then fit a Maintenance Free Junction Box there, then feed the cables along to the new socket position you have cut.
I know it means another 2 holes to be cut but it would keep all of the cables in the safe zones.

Re Safe zones:
Having read the article that Inky Pete posted, It's very sad that the lady was killed and maybe in that example if the cables had of been run correctly it wouldn't have happened. Considering the article was about a fatality due to cables being in the incorrect place you would have thought that they maybe could have linked to information on where exactly the cables should have been placed and where the safe zones were situated, all the article said was "The wire was outside the area of expectancy"

It appears that the only people who really know about safe zones and pay them any attention are Electricians. The general public haven't the vaguest idea of why you should not drill or knock nails in walls in specific areas, I do thing safe zones should be publicised more and the public educated to their existence.

Cheers.

 

[AndyK81144]

From your first picture it looks like the 2 cables come in from the right hand side, why not carefully cut a hole in the wall at the corner and see if you can find the cables, if you can then you could drop them down in the corner and then put the new socket there or cut another hole at the bottom of the corner to get the cables down then fit a Maintenance Free Junction Box there, then feed the cables along to the new socket position you have cut.
I know it means another 2 holes to be cut but it would keep all of the cables in the safe zones.

Re Safe zones:
Having read the article that Inky Pete posted, It's very sad that the lady was killed and maybe in that example if the cables had of been run correctly it wouldn't have happened. Considering the article was about a fatality due to cables being in the incorrect place you would have thought that they maybe could have linked to information on where exactly the cables should have been placed and where the safe zones were situated, all the article said was "The wire was outside the area of expectancy"

It appears that the only people who really know about safe zones and pay them any attention are Electricians. The general public haven't the vaguest idea of why you should not drill or knock nails in walls in specific areas, I do thing safe zones should be publicised more and the public educated to their existence.

Cheers.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

I must admit I'd never heard of safe zones. I thought lighting wires came down from the ceiling and sockets came up from the floor and that was the basic rule.